The SEEK Podcast
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The SEEK Podcast
True Masculinity and Femininity: Poco a Poco x SEEK
What does it mean to be sons and daughters who are living true masculinity and femininity? In a world that has kind of a broken understanding of masculinity and femininity, it seems that our identities as sons and daughters of God—the idea of masculinity and femininity, have been hijacked and somehow misunderstood. This is why it's just so important to understand our hearts and reorient ourselves to what we are supposed to be doing as a man or a woman.
We are going through the different facets of what it means to have a redeemed masculinity or femininity and how that aids in the restoration of our sonship or daughtership.
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Welcome to the Seek Podcast, where we explore faith, inspire hope and build community. My name is John Michael Lucido and I'm excited to invite you to join us this season as we dive into topics about the faith with people from all over the Catholic world. Thank you for listening to today's episode. Know that we are praying for you. You're listening to the Poco poco podcast, sponsored by spirit juice studios hey, I'm father mark mary.
Speaker 2:Hey everybody, I'm father innocent hey, I'm, father pt whoa, he's back. Hey, father is here.
Speaker 3:Y'all, we are the franciscan friars at the renewal, father innocent was attacking my watch. I think it's similar size.
Speaker 2:I mean it's a little bigger than that one. Yeah, it is just kind of nerdy. I just was mentioning this is not nerdy, it's big.
Speaker 3:This is a gift from jacques down in louisiana I just I wasn't attacking.
Speaker 2:He's a very cool farmer I was just also recognizing that you guys don't wear your watch on your wrist, which is interesting yeah, I don't like it it's all uh, wristband stuff I did the cameras get them drinking.
Speaker 3:You guys just did the whole thing synchronized. Wow so, father pierre, toussaint welcome back thank you, father mark maryMary.
Speaker 2:Where in the world have you been?
Speaker 3:Father PT just shared one of the graces that he prayed for, which, apparently, father Innocent has not been praying for. Wow, we can touch on that. So, father PT, I think we maybe told the listeners.
Speaker 4:Did we?
Speaker 3:You were gone for a while because of being on a 30-day retreat. Yes, that's cool, mm-hmm, I'm just waiting for an invitation here, so is that like, like what? Do you like what?
Speaker 4:is that so? Yeah, so I had the opportunity actually a blessing to go on a 30-day retreat and basically you spend 30 days with jesus. Um, so st ignatius has this whole 30-day retreat that he has different meditations that you go through, and it was just a gift to be able to take some time away from the community where father innocent, you ask where was I?
Speaker 2:where were you sorry?
Speaker 4:oh okay, yeah, I was there I was in assisi, italy, with with Father Gabriel Emanuel. You spoiled brat.
Speaker 4:Yes, and actually, if I could give a word about the retreat itself, it's just the providence of God, the Father, and how he loves to spoil his children and just be good to us, and so both myself and Father Gabriel had many opportunities to be spoiled by God and, in particular, I think just sitting at the feet of St Francis was an awesome, awesome gift. But yeah, it was totally a gift just to be able to have the opportunity and noting that I don't know how many people in the world get to do this, but not that many to spend 30 days praying with Jesus, going deeper with him, and so I was grateful for the gift from the community. The brother stepped up and just held the house down for me in my absence, and it was just good. It was a good time.
Speaker 3:And so now are you a graduate of spiritual direction school.
Speaker 4:I have a certificate. I lead direct the retreats now um after coming back people sign up nobody's asked me, nor is this a pitch for anybody to ask me, just to be clear. But, um, but it's beautiful because like the lord's leading me deeper into, like just different places, um and so, but I do have a certificate now. Certified spiritual director. Slash retreat leader, master.
Speaker 3:Are all of you guys.
Speaker 4:He is. Father Angeles is coming up on it. I'm coming up soon.
Speaker 2:I don't have the certificate, you don't have the credentials.
Speaker 3:Yet why not, father cause? You have to do the 30 day before you get the certificate. When are you doing yours again? 30 day before you get. Oh, you didn't. When are you doing?
Speaker 2:yours again. But you, bro, you're doing so much more than a 30 day. I don't know how he got permission. He's like he's gonna be away for like three months. That's not true.
Speaker 3:Two months, it's only two really, what else are you doing?
Speaker 2:just some different things. Okay, it's a little about 10 years about. You did as well.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I did a 30 day no, you know, but you had a little extra time. You had bro like a week.
Speaker 2:He's taking like four extra weeks. That's not true. Are they all the same place? No, no, no, okay, there's a little travel in here and there, okay.
Speaker 3:And let's not forget Father Innocent you took a sabbatical in your second year of vows.
Speaker 2:Yeah, nine months. Yeah, I can't walk. Sorry, I'm going to sit here. I'm going to sit here all day. A nine-month sabbatical. You're like second year. Well, I didn't know you were gonna go there I.
Speaker 3:That was kind of surprising me. That's a whole throwback. It's a big throwback. That's the type of throwback. So I'm going soon and then I will get my certificate as well yeah, we all were at school together. It's great for those who haven't listened to or haven't heard that story yet. And what was your second year of Vows? First year of Vows.
Speaker 2:No, it was my second or third year, or even third.
Speaker 3:Oh that's right, because you're third, father Ennis, had a surgery that didn't go well, and so he was paralyzed for a few and learning to walk for about nine months.
Speaker 2:And you call that my sabbatical.
Speaker 3:Your first sabbatical. So anyway, father, crazy welcome back. Thank you. Thank you does so. It was led by one of the. There's a how old is, I mean, we don't know. There's a woman named trudy who's kind of a retreat leader, master yeah I think who's guided gone with a lot of our guys. Do you move with her? Is it like 20, 30 minutes a day?
Speaker 4:yeah, so sorry, you asked about the structure and I talked about the structure, but basically it's a, it's a phone call. Every day you pray for about four to five hours. Um, she gives you scriptures and she gives a little teaching on the spiritual life and discernment, and so, yeah, and I don't think she specifically stuck to like, once again, ignatius has a program. She didn't stick to that. She was kind of just beautifully led by the spirit and let's pray here and let's pray there, and so that's cool.
Speaker 3:Yeah, can we talk about the one thing that I?
Speaker 4:you referenced yeah, yeah yeah, and so, uh, this was so I give it more context this was the garden of, because you just go through like different scripture passages, and so I think I was praying with, oh so, adam and eve in the garden. They took the fruit of knowledge and went over. In the conversation we're just talking about how, yeah, they wanted to know more than they needed to know and that was part of the sin of just like curiosity and just like that's not their lane to be in and she goes. You know, father, that's an important grace to pray for. Pray, pray for the gracious day in your lane. Thank you noted and I will and so what?
Speaker 2:I want? To just publicly thank you for you. You just asked me for to pray for that grace as well.
Speaker 4:This morning when I try to take control of your life, get involved in your life, exactly, and so I've used that with the brothers now hey, bro bro, just pray for the greats right for the greatest, which means stay out of my life.
Speaker 2:I don't care where lane you're in, and just stay out of my lane but it was good and it's been good so the people, the people of god, have missed you I've missed them too.
Speaker 4:It's actually strange. It's strange, but I was like I miss. I miss being here, being with you guys, and so I didn't think I'd miss as much as I did.
Speaker 3:It's gonna be back what being here, being amongst you, okay brothers, I was gonna say another brothers we um. This is a. This is a celebration of the genius of father pierre tucson, not not over to the top we were at, we had local servants meetings. We're not going to talk. We'll talk about that more later.
Speaker 3:But when all the guys who are in charge of friaries, all together with general counsel, some formators for a little bit, and uh, we had like week of meetings and a couple psychologists and kennel lawyer gives talks. But at one point that one of the psychologists she took a picture of the whole group, shared it with her friends and they were like oh, is that you know they recognized me and father pt from the divine mercy chaplet, and so it's there with all the guys and they're.
Speaker 3:You know it's like she brings it up and so you know the guys start doing what guys do in that situation make fun of you guys yeah, yeah, and so I do what I do, which is like, oh you know, play it off like no, whatever.
Speaker 3:But then, father, because she wanted, oh, they want us to sign something, yeah, but father, pt is much cooler and smoother. It's like to the rest of the brothers you're like, y'all sign stuff for you too, like that's the way to play it off but that was the right way to do it.
Speaker 4:I didn't get as much of a reaction, like just people had looked at me.
Speaker 2:I think they thought I was serious what was funny is that you started signing my, like I, like you took my. I was sitting next to you, took my piece of paper and autographed it.
Speaker 4:Like here you go, such an idiot so you gotta step into those things sometimes.
Speaker 3:I took notes or I'm taking notes, please. I appreciate that. I'll sign stuff for you. I'll sign stuff for you too. Be cool and funny, not whatever I am okay, nerdy, apparently because of your big watch.
Speaker 2:Yeah, somebody called you that jock, don't, don't take it personally don't take it personally, but if he wore this watch on watch on his wrist, it would be nerdy.
Speaker 4:This is like so big bro, this is a worker's like bigger than your face. This is a watch, oh can you hold up next to your face just for the hair set.
Speaker 3:This is a man's watch, oh seriously see, this is what I miss, just good old brotherhood, some people listen, you don't miss this, this is the type of watch that the men are gonna get after they go through the knights of columbus, I see what you did there.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean, we're not quite okay, we'll transition.
Speaker 3:There's another one one other thing you said that's really funny is something was happening and people were moving fast. It might have been me again. You're like yo yo, where's the fire?
Speaker 4:that was funny, I guess. Anyway, I just that gets me. Does that not bother you? I mean, you guys actually move, all you guys are move, quick movers yeah but just when there's like no reason to to run through the friary or just to like quicken your step, like what are we? What are we doing here?
Speaker 2:let me just everybody just relax, just relax. That's right, because that gets me anxious and I feel like I'm missing something and somebody's running to something I should be at take it, take a deep breath, bro, you're good where's the fire?
Speaker 3:I know but the problem is, I'm always the one who needs that. But I'll say it to myself stay in your lane.
Speaker 4:And where's the fire?
Speaker 3:hopefully it's burning in your how was that staying in your lane?
Speaker 4:I just reached, reached over and poked Father Mark Mariner's chest. Hopefully that's what fires right there.
Speaker 3:I'm going to need a moment to recover All right, so we are going to get into the episode here. I'm going to try and keep us to, if you will, one and a half calls to action per episode at the most. Do you guys know what that is?
Speaker 2:No A little CTA. Called action. Yeah, there's actually called action at the end of every section in the book.
Speaker 3:Hey, relax all right, we're not on to that yet. The first one is this is not a paid advertisement. This is just something I believe in. Two no Seek's coming up Time to register for Seek Seek 25. Father PT and I will both be at the DC Sikh.
Speaker 2:You won't be there. No, I will not.
Speaker 3:January 2nd to 5th, then we have like four or five guys going to. Salt Lake City. It's not just for students anymore, they're opening it up to everybody. I think they opened it up before, but now it's a little bit more clear. If you want to attend Sikh, which has a lot of awesome speakers and just other stuff, it's just a great place, great event. My second favorite event of the year, after NST, which is also a focus thing, you can go to SEEKfocusorg and hope to see you there.
Speaker 2:SEEKfocusorg.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you got a problem with that, I was dot focusorg and hope to see you there.
Speaker 2:Seek Focus. Yeah, you got a problem with that.
Speaker 3:I was just trying to look at that in my head and like, huh, okay, we're going to offer them some notes on the website.
Speaker 2:Do you have some in the future?
Speaker 3:Nope Great Cross that out Okay. So, uh, today we are on day three, episode three, not day three episode three of the our lady of guadalupe consecration. That is kind of following father innocent. Father angelo says so in the english one, it's just your guys's names on the book, and then the spanish one is just follow agostino well, it's yeah, so it's interesting.
Speaker 2:The, the spanish book, is actually translation, and father agostino kind of kind of added some of his own stuff, right, so it's all three of us on the Spanish.
Speaker 3:And then just you two on the English, just us on the English. Yeah, got it. And so, if you, it is for guys, the episodes we're doing are not just for guys. What's it called when it's for guys and girls? Coed, that's not the word.
Speaker 2:I mean unisex Something like that.
Speaker 3:Unisex, something like that universal, I think unisex um, but um also co-ed works like your guys's watches unisex um wow, wow.
Speaker 2:So anyway we are on week.
Speaker 3:so this episode three, which is going through week three, and if you want to get the devotional you can go to kofcorg, forward slash sons or forward slash Poco Yep.
Speaker 2:Great, kick us off, all right guys. So yeah, just Father. Thank you for that small introduction. I was just going to kind of again just make clear again, um for for father, particularly because thank you, I'm just kidding, he wasn't here, but I'll appreciate it to, just to our listeners who are walking with us and praying with us.
Speaker 2:We're just super grateful to invite you on a journey of 40 days we're kind of a couple weeks in now, but uh, just to to consecrate our hearts to our lady, guadalupe, and um, this, this invitation came, it's kind of been welling up in our own hearts but just to, um, as kind of a second installment of Born of Fire, right, and uh, we just went so quick through the journey of Born of Fire and uh, and so we had just or at least me personally had always had a desire just to go deeper in sonship. Like, how do how does Jesus want to restore our sonship? And so the beautiful idea of just kind of preparing or letting our lady restore our sonship on this journey, as we prepare to consecrate our hearts are related by Lupe and again, the journey every day is kind of our. We have our companions along the way. We have Jesus, mary and St Juan Diego, and so you have these kind of yeah, every day we're getting some Mary and St Juan Diego, and so you have these kind of yeah, every day we're getting some, yeah, just invitations from them to go deeper in our sonship, right, and so the first, uh, the first week was just kind of a general restoration of sonship, kind of some themes just to help go deeper in restoration.
Speaker 2:Uh, last week we talked about the restoration of our prayer, right, and again, which is going to be at the center and the core of of, obviously, restoration, but even the story of our lady of guadalupe it's just so important that she comes to restore prayer. She comes to restore our union with god, right, and juan diego is an incredible example of that, where she invites juan diego to build a chapel where her son and eucharist can dwell and her tilma will dwell, and there's just a profound sense of the dwelling place of God, right, so that's how we restore our prayer and, brothers, simply, like this week, the title of this week is called the Restoration of Our Masculinity and, for the sake of our female listeners, the restoration of masculinity and femininity, right, we can't like, it's just so important to understand that, as sons and daughters, we have to understand our hearts, right, there's not like an abstract restoration, right, like, oh, what does it mean to be a son and a daughter of the father? This week we just really want to focus on what does it mean to be a son and a daughter who are just connected to what it means to to to live masculinity and femininity, right, um, I'm not gonna we're not gonna pretend to like dive, take a deep dive into femininity. We'll talk a little bit about it. That's why I kind of I wish you know the sisters of life have a lot of great resources on that, so, um, but, but what does it mean, brothers, to to to live, to live as sons from deeply, like to deeply from from our masculine hearts, right In a world that has that has kind of a broken understanding of masculinity, has this, um, again, we've it's been hijacked on what does it mean to not only be a son, but what it means to be a man?
Speaker 2:The identity crisis is kind of a fuller picture, right, it's like, yes, we don't know who we are, sons of the Father, but, father, I wrote this section because we feel like we don't know what it means to be a man. Right, again, it's been hijacked that, instead of living from our masculine hearts after the heart of Jesus, it's been hijacked that what it means to be a man is to like kind of this misunderstood power and strength, or this misunderstood drive for success, or again power and even in lust and like all these different things where we misunderstand what it means to to have a heart after the heart of Jesus, and and again we, we abuse our masculinity. And so what we wanted to do today is just to kind of go through different different facets of what it means to have a redeemed masculinity and femininity and how that participates, or kind of age, in the restoration of our, of our sonship. Father Angelus, do you have anything to add to that? Just, I'm just going to give the secret that you actually wrote this section in the book. So you know, one of the things that I would love your guys' thoughts about it, like the.
Speaker 2:I think the challenge is that, um, yeah, like, there's a lot of formation for young men today in the church of like, okay, how do we grow in masculinity? How do we, how do we, uh, heal our, our brokenness when it comes to our masculinity, sexuality, things like that, and so I love the conversation around that, and so it's. It was a, it was a gift to try to help those who will be reading the book to like, consider.
Speaker 1:And I think it might be.
Speaker 2:Um, is this, is this unique? I think we just talked about some different things, which I think is interesting. Um might not not be, in other circles or conversations, the same thing, so I think that's interesting. I think it's important to know that. I think we're going to recognize throughout what we've been trying to do is like just to learn from Jesus Right and so when we gaze upon Jesus and he and we say I said in the first paragraph here, like he was a man, because he's looking at his father and his father is revealing the gift of what it means to be father, what it means to be masculine as well, so Jesus' own experience of that is quite powerful and I guess the yeah, so that I think that's important, that that's rooted in the Lord. It's not like abstract cultural ideals of manhood and masculinity, but it's like, wow, like Jesus was, was, was the man, but he, he, he's the one we want to learn from Right, Um and I.
Speaker 2:And I think maybe just to start us off as well, like when you, when you think about the challenge that we all work with, with young guys, and if they kind of bring their brokenness or their struggles with you, like there there's some common, common like um experiences of what, what maybe dads were like um, and. And no, dads are perfect, right, and we all have different challenges and experiences. But, like, I think, to start us off, like when you, when you were in the presence of Jesus, um, um, like what was it like to experience his presence, like he was there? And I think when often young men like there's a refrain for young men, it's like yeah, my, yeah, so what was your experience like of your dad? Like yeah, he just wasn't around, like huh, or like he, he wasn't emotionally present, or he just, and again, sometimes it's like, yeah, he worked a lot, and's a great, that's a great value. Obviously, dad's supporting their families and working a lot Right, which is really really good.
Speaker 2:But I'm just struck, I think initially, about like the gift of manhood, the gift of the gift of masculinity, is just like Jesus was there, he was present, he was attentive and and, um, I just can't think of like we can't over under underestimate that um, that that his his gift of, of of being present. So I just kind of throw that out there to begin with and I and I think, uh, our reflections kind of begin there when, when dads aren't around anymore and when men, um aren't around anymore, they're not present, they're not committed, um, they have a hard time being involved. They have a hard time being involved. They have a hard time seeing what they need to see in their kids and their wives and yeah, just to be able to begin there.
Speaker 2:Does that make sense? Yeah, I'm going to bounce past you guys in a second, but I want to just reiterate his point that you know we did Born to Fire, right, and I think we talked a lot about like external characteristics of masculinity, like doing hard things for the sake of the Lord, strength and courage, and again in a real presence of like a masculine, like a masculine presence, right. But I like what Father Angelus said, that we're really trying to ask Jesus what the internal experience of masculinity is, like a masculine heart, and that's going to restore us to live our sonship. So I really appreciate you saying that, because we're going to talk about characteristics, you're going to be like, well, there's so much more to masculinity. Yeah, we know that.
Speaker 2:But what is the masculine heart like? Not necessarily how you live it out, like kind of, like the world says, like in concrete virtue, because that's all true for sure. But I think what we're trying to get out is, how does Jesus want to restore our hearts? And usually like it's a posture, through the posture of sonship, as a man after the heart of Jesus and again, jesus learns that from his own father and from his own experience. So do you guys have any general thoughts before I kind of zoom into like kind of giving some definitions and taking us through some other things?
Speaker 3:I do have some thoughts it's bringing to mind, and I think this is you know, for have some thoughts. What, what's it's bringing to mind?
Speaker 3:and I think this is you know, for our listeners who've been with us for a while, they they know we usually talk in the. Here's my experience and so obviously all of us are gonna be talking from our experience with our own, with like masculinity. But I do think some of the questions can be, can work in for men and women. Um, because I was just as you guys are talking and reflecting on it is just kind of looking back at my own life growing up and that there was this real experience of being concerned about what was masculine, what was manly, and that was a very big part in decisions I made and things I did and didn't do. It was like is this what I do, and a lot is, is this what? What like?
Speaker 3:My last name is ames is like, this was when ames does, but is this what like a guy does as well? And it is interesting just to reflect on all these different factors that were that I was taking in, that I was trying to like respond to and that I was trying to like create, if you will, uh, like sort of an image and and I think right, we there's, I think that's actually how it works, I think we are probably educated in it, informed in it and that's one of the reasons that you know, our experience with our dads and masculine figures and and our relationship with christ is so important. Right, it's because this is where we see, modeled like, the fullness and the authenticity of it and so I and I.
Speaker 3:I think that's very much true, for for probably all of us as we grow up, and for women as well, as they just reflect on their experience with their mother, with their maybe their sisters, with their friends, with what they're taking in, it's like okay, what's like, almost like, what's like what am I supposed to be doing, what's expected of me? And then that wrestling with it, either of pursuing it or, if it doesn't seem to fit, maybe like like I could push you away from it and yeah, so I just it's interesting and I think one of the things that before I like let father pt speak if he wants to, is, um, no pressure, it's a safe place is what's? What's what is uniquely a gift, I think, of you guys, and we see it right because you guys are both in formation of men. You guys are both, um, the people who come to you are often like guys who, who need some sort of fathering and some sort of care.
Speaker 3:Is it's just like what a gift and unique experience it is for you guys to grow up as triplets but as like two, you know, as brothers, and have the experience of both sort of like the sports world and all that sort of stuff, but also you guys are just really able to. There's a lot of us grow up with an insecurity about sharing, about like what's going on interiorly. It's a non like manly thing and or like a number thing and it's just really. Yeah, I think it's really like you guys have a facility and a freedom in the interior space where I think I'm still like overcoming some of the, the formation I received of like what is and what does not things guys do or how they relate, etc thanks for my great thank you, I do.
Speaker 4:I do have something to say.
Speaker 4:Great, thank you, welcome.
Speaker 4:Uh, I think the beautiful thing about all this is that, yeah, as men and as people in general, right, we have the experiences that we have, meaning our earthly fathers, or the ways in which we experience fatherhood or didn't experience fatherhood, and so, specifically, as a man, and even as a woman too, that just informs your, your life in a particular way.
Speaker 4:I think it's just beautiful to take a step back and just to look once again at yeah, but what does jesus say about, or how does he want to? Yeah, to create maybe a new image of sonship in my own heart, in my own life, and to heal maybe some of those things that I fall into as far as wounds or past things, and so, which, once again, naturally for me, I stopped, like at my father or different father figures that I had in my life and, yeah, it's just a good reminder that there's more, right, the Lord desires more for us and he doesn't desire for us to be stuck in this, uh, truncated or this shortened version of manhood or femininity that we're going to look at and and the beautiful thing it's, it's as we'll talk about too it's through our lady where it's just through her yeah, her yes, and just her fidelity, that we're able to experience this and so, um so, yeah, it's just a gift and she's a gift and, yeah, we'll speak more about that.
Speaker 2:But awesome if all angels you did write this section and, um, I just think it's. It's really powerful because, again, the unique take of how we're trying to talk about the restoration of the heart instead of just like actions and so you take us through I mean, you wrote this definition of masculinity that kind of like jumps us off here. Would you just want to say something about that real quick?
Speaker 2:And then, yeah, I and I and I think to the to, we all said it in some way but, like, I think there's a competition right For who our eyes are on. When it comes to who I want to be like people in the world that that um inspire us or that you're like we model, we become role models for us in that, which is really, really beautiful. But I think the challenge, and I think that the provocation or um is an invitation to consider that like, who do I look at and who do I want to be like? And if we, if we really want to grow into the young men and women God young men or old men and women um, that God calls us to be, like we, it's, it's it's very important to consider like to, to make sure that we're, we're looking at the Lord, and so when we look at Jesus, um, the, the way we define in this journey, the way we define masculinity, is Jesus was available, attuned and fully offered in sacrificial love. And so there's this sense of availability, attunement, which is it could be a new word for people and then also fully offered in sacrificial love, and so the availability goes back to this like the gift of masculinity and femininity.
Speaker 2:I think is just the gift of presence. Right, when we look upon Jesus and he's living the fullness of his life, fullness of his, of his masculinity, interiorly, in, in, exteriorly, um, there's just this gift of um being available, being present. Um, it's kind of like we how often we talked about the show like, uh, jesus's gaze upon each person he encounters. Right, he's not, it's talking about, like, being running around the friary, right, there's something about the, the, the presence of jesus that allows him to see and and to be, to be available to the person right in front of him. Um, and so we were talking the other day, uh, the, the young guys going on, jesus run, I'm like, yeah, but jesus never ran, you know, like some guys, people talk jesus walk, you know, but like jesus, like, um, what do you? What do you mean by that? Yeah, people don't know what jesus runs are, what do you? What do you mean by that?
Speaker 3:yeah, people don't know what jesus runs are well, and also, what do you mean?
Speaker 2:jesus didn't run yeah, but the the reality of. Uh, we were joking because I I had given a homily recently that jesus passed by. The custom post saw matthew as jesus kind of passes by, passes by. He's not like running around from town to town, but jesus has the space adult. Jesus wasn't running around yeah, adult, adult, jesus, yeah, yeah, yeah, young.
Speaker 3:Jesus might have ran to play. Of course he did, sorry.
Speaker 4:But he didn't run to the airport or anything like that.
Speaker 2:But the reality of Jesus being present and available and not overlooking things because he was in a hurry to get his mission done. I like that Right. And so we have Jesus runs where we go on the street and that's what we call them, and but we were after I gave the homily. We're like do we need to change that name? You know?
Speaker 2:but uh, this is the gift of being jesus, being available so I just wonder, like in our own, when you read the gospel next, just like consider that, what was jesus's presence like? And this is coming forth from his masculine heart, his, his heart, that that is is, is really rooted in, present and available to what's right in front of them, and I think that's just a powerful thing.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, and so uh, all 30 day now, here we go.
Speaker 2:Here we go bro.
Speaker 4:Uh, trudy also mentioned that, and it's beautiful because I mean, I found it to be true Like the more attuned we are to God, the easier it is to be attuned to the person in front of us, right, because we experience then no longer is this person in front of me the distraction that I got to get out of the way so I can do the next thing. But God's always looking at me and as he's looking at me, I'm able to look at this person in love and it becomes a sacrament, a moment of encounter with God, which I think is how Jesus experienced also the Father's love where he's constantly being looked at. He, where he's constantly being looked at, he's constantly has access to his heart, and so the things that he does are never. I gotta get this done so I could get to the next best thing. It's always the father's looking at me and I could just look and love this person. I think about any, any passage where the woman caught in adultery like where are your accusers? And he's just looking at her, the hemorrhaging woman.
Speaker 4:he looks down at her and says daughter, you know, like it's amidst the crowd of people, it's always the person before him, which is a sacrament and the opportunity because once again in his sonship, receiving it from the father, he's able to experience that the father is always, he always hears me you know and and just reflecting on the like, when he's lost in the temple right, because he experiences, I think, from joseph and mary too, but when he's left in by himself, like what actually happens in his heart oh, my father's still looking at me, even though my parents aren't here, you know which, once again, could hopefully be restored for us in times of abandonment you know, of my gosh, like my father wasn't here, but the father has looked at you in love in that particular place, to the point where Mary and Joseph come back and they said we're like, what have you been been doing?
Speaker 4:I was in my father's house, you know, like just like once again that security of being known and loved specifically by the father, because the father's available to him, but he's even more available, jesus is, to those around him because of just being built up in that way. So let me.
Speaker 2:Just I wanted to know your thoughts because we use the word two minute.
Speaker 2:We've been using that word more often and attunement is basically connection so I'm available, but then I have this ability to connect and be able to see your heart and to receive your heart. And so I'm um, I'm just curious, because it's super important and when we, when we were working with these young guys, is that like they feel like someone's not only present to me, but like, wow, he like seeing me, he's understanding me, he's, he's being present to me in a very unique way in my heart.
Speaker 1:And so just I wanted to get a shot on that.
Speaker 2:I'm going to jump off of father PT's.
Speaker 2:uh, you, you talked about the hemorrhaging woman and I was just thinking about the sinful one woman women actually because there's a lot of women that come in context to to break the alabaster jar, but also the woman caught in adultery. Now it's interesting, I just love, I love talking about masculinity in that context, because a woman basically, you know, throws herself at the feet of Jesus and and and and ask for forgiveness or have this encounter at mercy, and she's been hurt by men. And I when we would say, like men that aren't true, men, right that that that have been taken over by lust, right? And so I just wonder, I just wonder I think it's a beautiful meditation I wonder what the masculine heart of Jesus was like for her. I just wonder. I think it's a beautiful meditation. I wonder what the masculine heart of Jesus was like for her. And we've been talking about availability. It's like a masculine presence. She felt safe in his presence and I think that's the restoration Jesus wants, to restore masculinity, so we can live in this fullness and availability where I have like a masculine presence that's safe and strong. So it's just beautiful.
Speaker 2:Like you said, these, these the hemorrhaging woman, and there's something about they were attracted to his presence, um, and I think that's kind of we're just hinting at something that it's not it's. It's availability, yes, but availability, like father angela said, that's like a presence, um, that is just unique and that um, that that like Jesus had in such a profound way, and that presence turns into attunement. And so you call that connection, right? So it's not just someone's like Jesus is like there and like his bodily or his physical presence, but there's something about a connection of the heart. And the reason why we put this in here is because I think there's a misunderstanding about the masculine heart, that it's not that's afraid of emotion, that it's afraid to feel or when, that when Jesus is deeply moved, right, he's moved to the depths, like we're like what is that? Right? But because sometimes men are afraid to feel their emotions, but attunement draws Jesus's attunement draws, draws us to, to his heart, that he's actually living from this place, that he's not afraid of his heart, he's not afraid of what he's feeling, he's not afraid of suffering, he's not afraid to give himself in love and sacrifice, which is the next thing. But Jesus is a man of the heart, so he's present, but also he's attuned and this allows him to be fully connected, right? So instead of running away from emotions or running away from feeling jesus is, let's allow himself to fully feel and that and therefore like be connected to the person in front of him who's suffering, or to be connected with someone in love and joy.
Speaker 2:Um, so, father, like father angeles you mentioned, like I think this is so important because a lot of people, a lot of um sons and daughters, we just don't have this experience, or we don't typically. Well, I just don't wanna make a blanket statement. We struggle to have this experience where someone's fully attuned to us, and so maybe our own mothers and fathers, where we're like man or some sort of masculine figure. We're like, yes, there's so many gifts, but sometimes we feel disconnected and Jesus wants to come restore that part of our, restore that part of our relationship, especially with with our own selves or with other people, that we don't have to be afraid of our hearts.
Speaker 2:And, um, this is what we try to teach the young guys is that, um, we have to. We have to first not be afraid of our hearts. We have to, like, settle into our hearts and realize that there's so much happening that Jesus wants to restore, because it's it's this, um, it's the restoration that that allows us to live in fullness of relationship, where we don't have to be afraid of love. We don't have to be afraid of our weakness. We don't have to be afraid, um, of how we experience our emotions, because this is kind of that, um, this is kind of what Jesus comes to restore, um. So, yeah, I, yeah, I just think attunement is so important because it's the connection jesus shows us. This might be a new word for people, so I just wanted to appreciate that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I'm gonna drive it in a particular direction if okay, just uh, just also to, just I know we've mentioned this before, but this is tough, you know.
Speaker 4:I mean, like, um, I don't think the expectation is that you read this consecration and you're able to get it. It takes work, and especially just to note, like cultural backgrounds and cultural differences where, um, I'm just thinking like, in particular, for haitian men, or I'm sure the same thing is for latino men like machismo is a big thing, where the guy's not supposed to be emotional, the guy's not, he's supposed to have his stuff together, go to work, provide and be the backbone of the family, and so, just like, you're gonna be fighting a lot of things as a guy, even a girl too, man or woman, just um, like the cultural norms and stuff like that. But just know, once again, I think the lord desires more for you. You know like he doesn't want you just to oh well, that's your lot in life, you're born into this or whatever it is. You know, um, but just to, to know it's tough, but he's with you, and that he desires this, this change for you to, to be more attuned in this way. So what.
Speaker 3:What's coming to mind here is just like that reminder and that truth, right like what it looks like, um, perfectly integrated um we're gonna find in jesus and mary, for men and women. And so, as we're kind of asking, like what is this supposed to look like? What am I supposed to look like? If you will, that's where that's, that's that's where we look, and as we, we kind of kicked off the episode. You were talking about some of the kind of the false expressions or the. It's not that there's there. It's, there's something to it, that's true, but then it's like an exaggeration of it, of like masculinity, of like what.
Speaker 3:What kind of came to mind is like there's something about us that wants to be like a conqueror to have the power to assert authority, and this is this is also some of like with, with promiscuity, some of this stuff, even with that control yeah, some of like the there there is.
Speaker 3:There is something about like the desire to be a conqueror that I think is like in us. That can be, if you will, disordered or properly ordered and, to be honest, I think, like with um, I don't think it's just a masculine thing. I think there's there's a growing movement within women with some of this as well. It's like there's like a little bit of like this, an expression of I want, you know, like I want to achieve, I want to do it, I want to conquer, I want to um, whatever the thing is um and and so I I like and where. Why I'm kind of bringing it up is I think that there again, I think that there is something holy and actually good about like if you were wanting to be victorious, wanting to be strong, wanting to be a victor, but again, like it's going to look like it looked like Jesus is going to look like it looked like like Jesus is a conquering king.
Speaker 3:We know we celebrate Christ the King, he conquered death, he conquered sin, all this sort of stuff. Like king, he conquered death, he conquered sin, all the sorts. Like it's a real thing. Our lady as well, I think you know, if you will, is is you know? She's a queen, she's conquering, she's a victorious queen, our lady of victories, etc. But we want to like look at their lives, like, okay, how this desire have, how do I properly order it like? What does it actually look like?
Speaker 2:yeah, I love that father mark mary, as far as, like holding jesus and mary together and the full expression of giving your life totally to conquer and and I just or to be victorious in your, in your life and your mission.
Speaker 2:I I think what's beautiful is that Jesus is King most most perfectly, as he, as he gives his life and conquers on the cross. And that, and the third characteristic characteristic of what we were saying, like masculine hearts is sacrificial love. The man who gives himself totally and completely and Jesus does that right he constantly keeps giving himself and pouring himself out, and it's going to be on the cross, when his masculine heart is on display, that this man who was available and attuned to all of us and he offered himself perfectly back to the father, um, and in sacrificial love, like he, he, he gives him the fullness of his life for the ones he loves and for his bride Right, and so, again, it's in sacrificial love and our lady's going to do the same thing. And I just want to note, just cause I did the research, um, the sisters of life tell us um that for the feminine, for the feminine, feminine, feminine, feminine heart um that for the feminine, for the feminine feminine, feminine, feminine heart.
Speaker 3:Say it again I'm tired for the feminine heart, um they talk about receptivity, sensitivity, generosity and maternity, right, so I think, jump on the second. Uses that and more will re-taught these. Yeah, he thought to him. Whatever, yeah, yeah, I was blaming all the words, but I mean I.
Speaker 2:So I just want to, I just want to hold out the fact that, like you talk about the feminine heart, we might use different characteristics, so that's just to know. We hold that in reverence, but our lady is the one who's going to show us that perfectly. So our lady is going to be the queen and she's going to be the perfect woman who's going to show us how to do that, the perfect woman who's going to show us how to do that. But also, as we, as we are noting in this journey, as through the consecration, it's just beautiful to know that as Mary, as mother, wants to help us live our masculinity and femininity. So you're going to notice in the book that these, these kind of sections are not. We're not going to talk about how Mary lived it. We're going to talk about how Mary was mother, helping Jesus live his masculinity. And so that's just also to know that, brothers and sisters, we don't have to like figure this out by ourself. Our lady is actually given to us so she can support us in living this identity, living especially to live in the gift of our masculine hearts and inner feminine hearts. So I just wanna say that, and again, she wants to walk alongside of you, um and again. That's that's the whole point.
Speaker 2:Why father Anson and I reflect on that? Because we need help, like we we are, we live in a really confused world and um, and so our lady just wants to come and help us do that. So, just in that context I wanted to mention, and just a quick um, just to say it in a different way I think that, like when you talk about Jesus being available and present and attuned and connected, just using different words the fruit of that is this offering and sacrificial love, and the fruit of that is really a choice he makes in his masculine heart for those he loves, and so I love the idea that, like when we can live in this way, in our masculine heart or feminine heart, we make choices for other people and those choices, like become places that really are a response to all the other choices that are usually made against us in life. So when you talk about feeling abandoned, you talk about feeling rejected, you talk about being forgotten, are you talking about a lot of the things that we all can experience in our own lives when, when we have people who are, who truly live their identities as sons and daughters of God, but truly, like, lean in to the gift of their masculine heart, feminine hearts. They're making choices for other people and I just I love that, because when people make a choice for me, that does something to me.
Speaker 2:There's this gift of healing that happens.
Speaker 2:There's this gift of of, uh, of rediscovering that I'm worthy and rediscovering that I'm good and rediscovering that I'm lovable, and and that's how we experience redemption, and that's how we experience, like, a restoration.
Speaker 2:I'm restored when someone chooses me because the father chooses me, right, and so when Jesus comes to refill that for us, and then our lady helps you to do that, but she helps us and she chooses us, um, there's just just beautiful gift of like, uh, this, this, something that that opens up in my heart to know that like, oh, wow, in my life, where I've experienced the complete opposite of those things, jesus, in living the fullness of who he is, reminds me that when I live like that and when I live from my masculine heart and the gift of my sonship, um, I can heal other people and I can restore other people, which is just super powerful. And, and the gift of our lady, uh, st Juan Diego, is this, is what our lady did for him. And you, you have this poor man, this this kind of like humble man, and he, he was just a beautiful example of like he didn't really um, yeah, it didn't have like the, the, the traditional machismo kind of like not at all.
Speaker 2:It was like so poor so poor and little and kind of insignificant um, but when our lady comes to him, just, you see the choices that she made for him, you see the way he, she, loved him, and then what happened is it gave him strength and courage to be faithful and to be who he was called to be. So, like whoa, when these kinds of uh, the feminine genius is present, the masculine genius is present, where people see me and are attuned to me and make choices for me, uh, juan diego steps up into his vocation, stepped up into what he was called to do. Um, it has an effect, it's fruitful, right. And then, and then, he can then live what he's called to live, um in, in in his own way, you know so yeah, and I think the attunement, the availability, the Entunement, uh leaked, not leaks, but leads into sacrificial love.
Speaker 4:And I think it's just a real concrete choice to not run right, to be present and to stay present, because I think, like you're talking about family, there's good things, like to be present, but I think sometimes in the world we just learn like, oh, this is too much and I'm just going to take the easy way out. And Jesus never did that, whether it be the person in front of him, but, once again, because he experienced just the Father's always with me to the end. So he could say the same thing for his church for us, I will be with you always. Church for us, I will be with you, always. Right, and so, yeah, and so, just maybe in that place where we do have a desire to run from what's hard or run from the person in front of us or the thing that is present, maybe we can invite the Lord there specifically just to, to be with us, as he's always with us, but more so just to to help us be directionally focused towards the father.
Speaker 3:Can.
Speaker 3:I share a last thing do I have your permission, I'm like I do, I like this whole conquering thing and um, but and I, because what we're trying to hold intention and I think we're doing it and I think, hopefully, I think people who know us and how we live kind of get it is like there is a, there is a healthy grit and there's a healthy, you know, like cal's tansness to our masculinity, like there's in that and we see that in jesus right, like jesus, you know, was a laborer and he worked and he did hard things and he fasted and he went in the desert, where it's cold and all this sort of stuff, right, like you know, he maybe didn't, couldn't bench to 25, but, like you know, he could do hard things and maybe he wasn't taking ice baths but he was, you know, in the desert in the cold, like but but it's, or like it.
Speaker 3:So and I, I use those little things because there is, there's like a movement and if you see it, if you look like there's this move it towards conquering like, and in some spaces, in like men's spaces, there's like I conquer myself, I wake up at a certain time.
Speaker 3:I take a nice bath, I lift, I, I fast, I do this stuff like um, and I think, right, like we are called to be conquered, but it's conquering sons, right, and so there's, there is that, there's the thing like I'm going to be someone who is victorious, who conquers, but it's like I'm going to do it on my own and it's a little bit of like the prodigal son, like give it to me, I'm going to go do it on my own, that's great, but I think like the, the victory and the conquering we see in christ.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it includes those hard things, but it's in this relationship and it still remains as a son and an heir and um yeah and it's ultimately expressed in the conquering, if you will, of his own will, of laying down my own will so that I can lay down my life for others, right, and that's then, that's the end, and this is going to. This is going to be super random again, but I think it makes sense. I was thinking about it at the local servants things.
Speaker 3:There's a thing on joy and if you guys remember I don't know if you were all there- there's a throwback to the whole joke about, like me, not having a wrinkly forehead because, because I have botox of the heart.
Speaker 1:I don't feel emotions that strongly.
Speaker 3:I'm working on it, at least expressively, and a number of guys made jokes in the midst of the joy, uh talks which confirmed that it is a reality, uh, but it just kind of got me thinking, particularly like I think one of these like I don't I don't know if it's like conquering aging or it's something probably different, but like with women, there is this.
Speaker 3:There's this crazy movement of like you know, this whole, like I don't like this whole botox thing. Like when you're like 20, 20, so like you never get wrinkles, and just thinking about like what, if we like saw wrinkles as like this is somebody who has lived life and felt deeply right, they have, they've expressed themselves so much with entering into people's sadness or experiencing people's joy that like they've, they've lived life so deeply that it's, it's left is like this, it's it's expressed now externally with this kind of this change of their of their face, that they've kind of grown and like with the mother's or father's heart as well, and just like with this whole reference to our lady as the, the paradigm is sort of the, the mark or the model of femininity, like 100, like our lady, I really think.
Speaker 3:You know she had a very wrinkly face you know what I mean and so many of the images, they're all sort of like like, uh, airbrush, it's all sort of very clean, but like our lady would have been the one who felt who, who lived all this the receptivity, sensitivity, generosity, maternity, like so deeply, she would have again and again and again made people's joys her joy, made people sorrow, her sorrow. And this is going to be expressed like externally, and so I think we just want again like make that movement, to like to just, yeah, really looking at our lady and and allowing us her to show us, like, what authentic beauty is, what, what, what a healthy approach to sort of aging and all that sort of stuff. I think it's just, it is super important god I'm just
Speaker 2:gonna end this.
Speaker 4:Okay, I'm gonna say something about mom. Um. So I just had this experience the other day. I'm sitting in the chapel and so on the side of Our Lady of the Angels there's a huge image of Our Lady of Guadalupe. I don't know how big she is four stories, she's huge and we're currently having a restoration. I saw that.
Speaker 2:See that right there Restoration. I definitely saw that.
Speaker 4:And so I'm sitting in the chapel before holy hour and I hear somebody outside.
Speaker 4:She's so beautiful because, it's in the middle of her being repainted and so, anyway, if you can, if you know the image of our lady guadalupe, it's the, the corona around, like so the sun is painted, and that her mantle is painted too, and he was just the artist was just starting on her face and so she's still a lot of it's on unfinished. But, um, I just thought to myself, she's always beautiful and she was always beautiful, and I think a beautiful thing is that like, especially for women, um, just sometimes in life, because the reason she needed to be restored was because she was sun beaten and weathered over time, and sometimes that can happen in life, with its like once again, as we're talking about, like through wounds, and you just feel like, oh my gosh, like I'm beaten up. And I think, in a beautiful way the father does this restoration work of just painting us anew and using colors that were already present, but drawing them out in a deeper way, in a more beautiful way, that were already present, but drawing them out in a deeper way, in a more beautiful way. And I think, once again, if we live, or if ladies live, femininity in a beautiful way, specifically in the heart of Our Lady, which is encased in the heart of her son towards the father.
Speaker 4:People can see this, this beauty that's present because she's receptive, and this image of Our Lady of Guadalupe is receptive to the paint, you know, is a mother to people in the neighborhood, beautifully, and people walking by, even amidst the painting, um, I just hear them say don't mess her up, you know. Or, um, like, I see this one guy who lives in apartment building across, like he's constantly, like making the sound across as a candle by his window, and so she's a mother and, once again, this is all gift that she freely gives. And so just to offer that as an image, especially for, specifically, the feminine genius, but just to know that that's a part of the son's heart for you, but more than that, just that you are beautiful and the father just wants to restore this image in a way that is even better than you can imagine and I've dreamt, you know, so beautiful brother.
Speaker 2:So, like the, I just want to keep it before everybody that the whole point of this journey is to the father. In in Jesus and our lady want to want to restore our hearts as sons and daughters. Like, the restoration is for our sonship and being being sons and daughters, and a part of this is the restoration of our masculinity and femininity. And so I just appreciate, like, just what does it mean to have a masculine heart and a feminine heart and to live from that and to not be afraid of our hearts there, right? And so I'm just grateful that we could have the. It's in that context that we're driving towards restoration of being sons and daughters of the father, because it's the, it's the identity at our, at our deepest, at our deepest core. Um, we didn't really know how this, these episodes, there's so many things to talk about. So I appreciate it. We, we, we. We made time just in this context, but, but just invite people to notice the different other different ways that that we go through. In the consecration that we. We talk about magnanimity and generosity, we talk about chastity and we talk about the, the difficulties of, of the, the attacks against our masculinity and femininity of, like, pride and control and lust, um, but the whole point is that we can be to live in the freedom and peace of the sons and sons and daughters of the father Right. So you're just going to notice that journey as we go through Um.
Speaker 2:So obviously, in in in these episodes we can't talk about everything in full Um, I do want to just invite people again, um, if you're, you know, if you're getting on the train here, we're, we're, we're a couple of weeks in um, but it is going to be a 40 day consecration, so just, you're very welcome, just kind of jump in Um. If you want to again, if you want to, uh, go to the website. It's K K of Corg forward slash Poco and that's going to have like all these episodes and have ways that you can get other things. But if you would like to go to the Knights of Columbus website in this context, it's kfcorg forward slash sons and there is weekly videos available from Father Angelus and I. There is the bilingual version, so there's a Spanish version with Father Agostino and Omar and Luis from the Knights of Columbus. So that's awesome. And then also you can order a hard copy of the book, still that they're available at kfcorg forward, slash sons and you can get all that there.
Speaker 3:That's a very strong CTA, like a pro.
Speaker 2:I just wanted to be very clear, like a pro.
Speaker 3:Wow, the student has become the master. Anyway, I feel like Yoda says something. Is that all for us today?
Speaker 2:Can I give a shout?
Speaker 3:out? Yeah, do we want to do it after the prayer, like we normally do?
Speaker 2:Oh, I thought that was all like you were like done. Sorry, we usually pray. We will pray, won't you pray, father, in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, amen. Heavenly Father, we thank you and praise you for the gift of our lives to be your sons and daughters. We hold before you our hearts. We just ask for restoration in our masculinity and femininity, that we could be fully open and just receive the grace, everything that Jesus wants to give us this day to restore our hearts. We just pray for that grace of receptivity. We ask this all through Christ, our Lord. Amen. Now I can give my-.
Speaker 1:Now you can give your-.
Speaker 2:I just want to say hey to my friends Pat and Kenna. They work at the Martin's Center for Integration, which is cool. I was just with them last month when I was in minnesota. It was on their podcast. They have a podcast called the whole life, um, and it it's beautiful. They have a. It's a center for healing and counseling and different things there. So just awesome. They're beautiful couple, they have a beautiful family, they listen to the podcast every week and we just had a lot of joy and fun talking about healing and growth and so anyway, anyway, just grateful to them and thank you. They sent us all for one of these thermoses, so you can take yours as well, thank you.
Speaker 2:I want to shout out in encounter Boston. Yes, one of the portions asked us to shout. Hayden wanted us to shout out. Encounter Boston, all his friends there. Thanks for listening. God bless you guys.
Speaker 3:He said something about mousetraps.
Speaker 2:Oh, he said something about mousetraps that I didn't quite get. Oh, Father Mark Perry said something about mousetraps. We were walking up the stairs.
Speaker 3:I have an image.
Speaker 1:Mousetraps.
Speaker 3:Oh hey, thank you to our friend Kathy. Kathy listens to the podcast. She went to Greece and she brought us back some fun stuff and a mug, or a couple of mugs we got over there, and a bag for Dolores oh gosh it's awesome, she said. I don't know how you say that Miokinos would be a great place for the cruise someone talked about the cruise to me recently as well.
Speaker 2:I'll just throw that out there the cruise that will never cruise.
Speaker 3:And yeah, we hope to see you at Seek If you want to go to Seekfocusorg, if they don't change it because of Father Angeles' unimpressed face, anything, alana.
Speaker 4:Shout out to Alana.
Speaker 3:Hi, sweet, all right, see you, peace, peace.
Speaker 1:Thank you for joining us for this episode. We hope you learned something and encountered Christ in some way. If you enjoy what we do, please subscribe and share this podcast with a friend. This helps us reach more people with and for Christ. Until next time, this is John Michael peace.
