The SEEK Podcast
Welcome to the SEEK Podcast – we're so glad you’re here. This podcast is a place of community, collaboration, and inspiration, created to invite and encourage you deeper into a relationship with Jesus. Join these podcasters and many others as we encounter Jesus at SEEK25, Jan 1st-5th. For more information and to register, visit seek.focus.org.
The SEEK Podcast
Transform Your Spiritual Life with the Catechism: All Things Catholic x SEEK
In this episode of All Things Catholic, we sit down with Father Mike Schmitz at SEEK 25 in Salt Lake City, recorded live from the Max Studios podcast stage.
Father Mike delves into the pivotal role of the Catechism of the Catholic Church in bridging the vast expanse between humanity and the divine. Drawing from his profound keynote speech, he illustrates our spiritual journey using the vivid analogy of floating in space, emphasizing our dependency on Christ to anchor us. We also discusses its practical impact on everyday faith and its historical context.
Check out SEEK Replay for Fr. Mike's Keynote
Welcome to the Seek 25 podcast, featuring some of our favorite podcasters recorded live at the Max Studios podcast stage during Seek 25 in Salt Lake City.
Speaker 2:All right, welcome to the All Things Catholic podcast. I'm your host, Edward Sri, here in Salt Lake City at the SEEK 25 conference. This is amazing. We've got over 17,000 people gathered here, We've got 3,000 people in DC and several hundred in Cologne, Germany. It's the largest SEEK event we've ever had and on the show today we're very blessed to have a special guest, Father Mike Schmesch. Father, thanks for being with us again.
Speaker 3:Dr Sri, thank you very much.
Speaker 2:Great, everyone who loved the keynote from Father Mike last night. I just got to say I love that image of just floating in space. I just, I mean that has stuck with me of like whoa, we're just, we are lost completely without our Lord.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's one of those where I mean I'm sure you've all heard about like the unbridgeable gap between us and God because of sin, and when my friend Nick did it, he's like an actor so he can like really get into it. And whenever I think about that and that sense of being completely, when it comes to our own salvation, we're completely helpless unless Jesus launched himself and throws us back to the Father. Just say I love that as well. I'm so grateful to Jesus and also there's my friend Nick for giving me that image.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we're thankful for you sharing that with us. And one of the things Jesus gives us actually actually to hold on to in a world where you just can feel really lost is what we're going to talk about today, and it's the great gift that he's given us through the church, the catechism of the Catholic church. Now, how many of you have listened to the catechism in the year that Father Mike did? Okay, so I want to ask about the catechism a little bit here, Father. So why the catechism? I mean, it feels like a textbook that maybe you'd assign in a classroom and maybe like a reference book you keep on your shelf. Why do we need the catechism? How does it enrich my own personal relationship with Christ?
Speaker 3:Well, I think, well, I want to back up a little bit or like come up from a different angle. So one of the things that in 2020 had this notion of we should have a podcast where we do the entire Bible and catechism in one year and so that was the original proposal to Ascension was like, can I just do this, like read the Bible, read the catechism, both in one year? And because actually, the focus, I mean many reasons. I mean there's other factors too, but I don't know if you know this about Focus Missionaries the Focus Missionaries, over the course of their time being the two-year missionaries, they're expected to read all 16 narrative books of the Bible, as well as the entire Catechism of the Catholic Church, and they have stats on the number of missionaries who actually do that, and these statistics, I think, are in the single digits of the number of missionaries who actually do the reading plan. I mean, they're good missionaries, they're busy, they're talking with you guys, but they weren't actually reading the Bible or catechism in the way that they should, and so it was like I want to help our missionaries and so how about we do this Bible and catechism in here? Ascension was wise and they said how about do the Bible first, catechism later. So that's how we started the catechism and the reason why Focus says missionaries should read the catechism.
Speaker 3:I think there's so many different levels, but one is here. We have God's Word in the Bible, right. We have God's revelation of himself to us through Scripture and the written Word. But God has so much more that he has said and so much more that he's revealed about himself through the teaching of the church that, if you want to think about this and you have, like Acts, chapter 28, right, and that's the last chapter of the early church in the sense I mean there's obviously the letters of Paul and there's the book of Revelation and everything like this and other letters. But the last glimpse we have in the Bible of the church is, in some ways, you know, acts 28.
Speaker 3:But the church didn't end with Acts 28. The church has continued for 2,000 years and the church has continued to think big thoughts and pray big prayers and has asked big questions, and the answers are summarized in the catechism. And so if I didn't have the catechism, I would have an incredible. I could have God's word written form, amazing. But the catechism is what you might say a synthesis and a summary of the written revelation and the oral tradition or the tradition of the church brought together, and so we recognize that the Bible's never dead, but God has actively been teaching his people. That has not stopped for 2,000 years. He continues to teach us, and so if I want to know what he's taught, I probably should crack open the Catechism.
Speaker 2:But it's an intimidating book.
Speaker 3:I mean it has almost 3,000 paragraphs.
Speaker 2:It has a lot of theological language in it. Is it something I can really use for my own life, my prayer life, my growing in my relationship with Christ?
Speaker 3:Yes. Well, absolutely, I would say the only intimidating thing about the catechism is it's just big, that's all. Because if you broke it down into the paragraphs, I don't know. Again, some of you said you already have listened to the podcast or you've read the catechism, that you know this, you know that when you start reading it, you realize, yeah, there's sometimes there's big words and sometimes it's complex word terms like hypostatic, union or whatever the thing is.
Speaker 3:But when you start reading it you realize, oh my gosh, someone, a human being, a couple of human beings, have synthesized the beauty and complexity of the church in a very simple and accessible way. If you actually just focus on one paragraph, there's so much beauty. In fact, I recommend one of the first times I was introduced to the catechism as a priest, it was from a man who was an expert in the catechism and he said that he often uses it as a source of prayer that he just actually says, okay, God, this is what you revealed about yourself, about us, about humanity, about salvation, about faith to the world, picks a paragraph and says I'm just going to read this and then do Lectio Divina with the catechism and I don't know, have you ever done that? Have you ever done?
Speaker 2:Lectio with the catechism. I have Not often, but I have done it. It is so powerful.
Speaker 3:Like I don't know if you guys have read the section on the Our Father or the on prayer. When it comes to the catechism, it's one of those things that just it has revolutionized truly. It sounds like a commercial. It has revolutionized the way I pray the Our Father, pray the Lord's Prayer, because every single article of the Lord's Prayer there's a massive reflection and like, well, this is how the church sees this great prayer given to us by Jesus, and so that's how I should see this prayer given to us by Jesus.
Speaker 2:And it's changed the way I pray. So the catechism I think about it also as a great place to go when you've got those questions about the faith you want to know why do we believe this, what's the importance of holy water, or why do we believe in purgatory, or why does the church teach this, about this moral issue and what's wrong with in vitro fertilization or abortion or whatever the issue is like, there's a great place to go. That's not just about what the church is teaching today, but is actually giving you a gift of 2,000 years of a rich tradition of great holy men and women and huge thinkers that have been thinking about these issues for a long, long time. That it's not like I have to just go and find the answer all by myself.
Speaker 3:Well, here's a question for you, because this is one of the things that I think sometimes is news to people who are reading the Catechism for the first time that it's not a book of apologetics, right, in the sense of it, doesn't? It often teaches us what the church teaches, right, it's a presentation of, here's a summary of what the church teaches, but the why is actually, in some ways and again, this is just what I think. But what do you think? The why seems to be implicit rather than explicit in some ways. Right, so you have teachings like in vitro fertilization, whatnot, and it's not kind of like a point by point. Here are the reasons why this is to be avoided as much as it is situated in the context of life, a context of human dignity, a context of the meaning of the sexual union, as opposed to. These are the five points why, I mean, would you agree?
Speaker 2:Oh no, it's not an apologetic book. There's elements of apologetics in it of course right.
Speaker 2:So the catechism we think of it, you know it comes from the word catechane, which means to echo, and the idea is that, as you see it in the scriptures in the early church, that the idea is that it's the proclamation of the gospel, the proclamation of the fullness of God's revelation to us, that we want to re-echo in our own hearts, and so that faith was being passed on, originally just for the proclamation of the gospel, and then it was summarized in creeds, little creedal statements the early church fathers used, and then eventually they started writing more systematic works to bring converts into the faith, and then eventually you get these larger catechisms that have come together over the centuries and this is the one we have now.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it's meant to be an encounter with all that Jesus has revealed to us through his church, through sacred scripture, through the tradition, through the magisterial teachings, and so I like what you're saying there, that it's not an explicit apologetics, although you certainly can find oh, here's a good reason why to believe in the real presence of the Eucharist here. But it might not be the full explanation on that front. It's more of the presentations that you can encounter Jesus in his truth.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm glad you think that, because that's what I thought. I wasn't sure I need to ask someone smarter than me, because I think a lot of times, even when the Catechism talks about faith and doubt and I don't know if you guys have come across this part in the Catechism where it talks about the differences between difficulty and doubt so in fact there's a quote by John Henry Newman, who you know our Newman centers are named after. But John Henry Newman said this he said 10,000 difficulties do not add up to one single doubt. And that's so important for us because I think a lot of times we have questions and our questions take a number of different forms. Right, I think we ask typically like three questions. One is I'll say what does the church teach? Like, so, what does the church teach? That's the what? Question. The next one is okay, I know what the church teaches, but why? Why does the church teach this that church teaches? And then the third question is how, in the sense of like, how am I supposed to live this?
Speaker 3:I think any of us could find ourselves in a position where we could be asking anyone or all of those questions at once, like when it comes to any teaching of the church, like well, everyone knows what the church teaches. When it comes to this, in fact, fulton Sheen said years and years ago right, he said there are not 100 people in America who hate the Catholic church, he said, but there are thousands upon thousands who hate what they mistakenly believe the Catholic church is. And so a lot of us. We have the question okay, so what does the church teach? And catechism explains those things. But then there's the next level. It's like go get in and listen. Father I, or Dr Sri, I know what the church teaches. I want to know why, like, why do we, are we for this? Why are we against that? Why do we believe this? And the catechism does a fantastic job of situating that, why.
Speaker 3:And sometimes we come to seek, and that's the big question. It's like, okay, I have encountered Jesus and I know what the church teaches and I know why the church teaches it. I've been studying, but then I met my own heart, and my own heart gives me an even more difficult question than what and why. My own heart raises the question how, in the sense of okay, I see this ideal. I see the call of Jesus on my life, I see the call to have radical discipleship and follow him and to love my neighbor as myself. I don't know how, because I know my own heart, I know my own self. And that's where I think the church needs to come alongside of us in that living way, in that discipleship way, in that friendship way, and is able to say okay, yep, here's the teacher who says what and how, but here's the friend who what and why, the friend who shows you how Does that make sense? Oh, totally.
Speaker 2:Let me ask you a personal question, then. As you've been praying with the catechism and doing catechism of the year, how have you encountered Jesus more profoundly, personally, like through these questions of what? Okay, clarification, and this is actually what the church teaches, the why, but then most importantly that how.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it's a great question. I have a couple of favorite sections of the catechism. Whatever one I'm reading at the time is my favorite section, but one of the ones that rises to the top, especially when it comes to working with our college students, is on prayer, and one of my favorite sections. So I don't know if you guys know this, but the catechism is built around four pillars, right. So there's the creed what we believe. There is sacraments, or how we worship. There is morality how we live and then there's prayer how we pray, how we talk to God. One of the subsections of the Catechism on Prayer is called the Battle of Prayer and I'm so grateful to the person who wrote this. So the primary. I don't know if you know this, oh yeah we talked about this on that program.
Speaker 3:You shared a bit about the origin of.
Speaker 2:I think you should share that with them.
Speaker 3:So I think a lot of times we approach the catechism and like, okay, there's these people in like ivory towers who are writing about these lofty ideas of like following Jesus and here's who God is and here's how you pray. The individual who was the primary author of that fourth pillar on prayer was a priest, is a priest who, at the time he was writing this section on prayer, wrote most of it in a bunker in Beirut while the city around him was being bombed out, and he was writing about how you can deeply radically trust in God, no matter what situation, no matter what season, no matter what you're going through. And so, again, it's easy for us to be like here we're air-conditioned or heated or whatever we're at. You know, we're comfortable right now with these nice cushy chairs. Talk about guys trust God more. Well, the guy who wrote about how we can deeply radically trust God in our prayer and everything, wrote that as bombs are falling all around him, literally falling around him, and that's one of the reasons why I love that section of the battle of prayer Because, okay, my experience, here's my experience of prayer.
Speaker 3:When I was in high school, I had a first encounter with the Lord and first conversion. I would read stories about saints and their saints would talk about how they go to adoration. So, like, I went to adoration because the saints went there. I want to be a saint, ergo go to adoration. So I'd ride my bike over to the Catholic church and park myself in front of the tabernacle, like Jesus go On. Because I would read stories about saints who would go in front of Jesus in the Eucharist and it would describe. It said hours would feel like minutes. Just time would just go away and I'd be kneeling there and minutes would feel like hours and I'd be like, am I doing something wrong? And then I read the Catechism in 1992 or 93, when I first read it in graduating high school, and it said the first thing we need to realize is that prayer is a battle. And that was so freeing for me to be able to realize. Oh, the first thing we need to realize, that prayer is a battle, it always presupposes effort. Because I always thought that prayer would be like slipping into a hot tub, like legit, like it would be like one of those like because, again, people who describe prayer are like oh, I'm just going to settle in in my cozy cup of coffee and in my journal. I mean, yes, that's Instagram prayer, like that is hot tub prayer.
Speaker 3:To be able to hear the Catechism say no, no, no, it always presupposes effort, that it's a battle. And then it says a battle against two, and the first you guys know this the catechism says the first battle of prayer is against ourselves, because I don't know if this is your story today or a story always, but this is my. Even this morning, this was the story. Okay, I need to pray morning prayer. I need to do this.
Speaker 3:All of the things that demanded my attention, unimportant things, you guys, I needed to check Instagram before anything else, so but that's the thing, a battle against ourselves. That there's always something else to do other than spend time with the Lord and to know that that's just normal was so freeing, because it's like oh, this is going to take the effort. I'm going to have to fight against myself every single day. Even if I want to pray, I'm still going to have to fight, and I think that's something that has really profoundly impacted the way I approach prayer, because I think it helps me give myself more grace, as opposed to like what's wrong with me, oh my gosh, I should love the Lord more, like, yeah, I love him a lot, but this is going to fight. I have to fight to make time.
Speaker 2:So what advice would you have for all these young people here if they wanted to get started in making the catechism not just a book on the shelf or something they pull up on their phone just as a reference book, but to make it a part of their daily lives. A part of their daily lives, a part of their formation of their own mind, their soul, their heart?
Speaker 3:Well, have you heard of podcasts? Legitimately? It's only the 3rd of January. There's a podcast called the Catechism in the Air. Download the Ascension app and it pops up. It's great, it's wonderful.
Speaker 3:But that's really what I mean in that sense of it's kind of like the Bible in that reality, that sometimes I would approach the Bible and I would expect to be overwhelmed by God's truth and God's power and like this is amazing, massive reality and love, and sometimes it's just like, no, I'm just taking it in and I think the catechism is similar. A couple different ways to read the catechism. One is just take it in like let it wash over you by letting someone read it to you and explain it to you. The other is the fact that I think this is I don't think this is inaccurate, but Dr Sri can correct me the Catechism is a reference book. It still is a book that I don't know that it was written to be read from paragraph one to paragraph last. I think it was meant to be read like I have a question about faith. Okay, so look in the table of contents or the back and say okay, paragraph on faith and go find that. I think that that's really helpful.
Speaker 3:I remember one of my spiritual, my spiritual director. At one point I was talking to him about all the books I had to read on my shelf. I just wanted to get through this and and he was like oh, was like oh, no, I rarely read books cover to cover. I was like what, he's a really smart guy, he's a hermit who lives up in Northern Minnesota, just this phenomenally intelligent and holy man. I'm like really, he's like oh yeah, I just read what I like and I put it down. I'm like no, no, you have to like read from cover to cover. And he's like, no, you don't Just read it. Open the chapter that you're interested in, read it and then, if you're done, put it down. You did it.
Speaker 3:I think a lot of us have this self-imposed burden on ourselves that we have to like read everything we have access to, and especially with the catechism, I think there's a truth that it is a reference book Read what parts you're interested in, knowing that the day is going to come when you get to come back to it. But the day is going to come when you get to come back to it, and if you learn how to go through the catechism today, you will know how to go through the catechism tomorrow. So, whatever question you have or the thing you want to learn more about, go there today and then, when you want to learn more tomorrow, go to the other place tomorrow. I don't know, what do you think?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's both. And I think there's I mean obviously there's program where you are going through systematically and there is a certain order in which the catechism is written, in the sense that the first part is all about. Here's the big picture of the story of God's amazing love for us, that he created us and we didn't have to exist. He created us because he wanted a relationship with us and we turned away from Him in sin and he sent His Son to die for us and he rises to fill us with His life, in His Spirit, into our hearts and he gives us the church. So that's the first story. And then you can look at the next pillar, on the sacraments, on the liturgy is how we enter that story of God's love, first through baptism, and then we receive that life of God that we profess in the creed, and then the moral life is really our response, now that I have the life of Christ dwelling within me. Christian, live up to your dignity, as Leo the Great says at the beginning of that pillar on the catechism. Now I want to imitate Jesus and share his love in the world around me. And then, finally, you know the last part you can think of the last pillar is like how that story of God's love that we receive in the sacraments and we try to live out the best we can in our fellowship together in the moral life, now that story is really written in our hearts. It's a story of a soul, like St Therese would say, in prayer. So there is an order to it, but at the same time so if you're doing RCIA, ocia class, you're presenting in a certain order, usually At the same time it is a reference book. It is something that you can pull off the shelf. I just want to understand better why we do this in the liturgy. I want to understand better why the church teaches this about Jesus and you can pull it off and go there. There's great references in the back that you can turn to you go. The Ascension Catechism is amazing. It's beautifully laid out but it's color-coded and has all these little guides to help you enter into the catechism.
Speaker 2:So we're at this, the All Things Catholic podcast. I'm your host, edward Stree. We're on location here at Seek 25 in Salt Lake City. I have my special guest, father Mike Schmitz, with us. If you want to get the show notes for this podcast, you want to just get this. You can go to 33777 and just type in All Things Catholic just one word. You can type that in All Things Catholic one word to 33777, and you can get the podcast into your inbox each week. But, father, you and I were blessed to get to work on another project related to the catechism and it's a program coming out just in a little bit of time. Here it's with Ascension, it's called Foundations of Faith, where it kind of goes a little deeper into the catechism, if you think of.
Speaker 2:I was just talking with our friend Marisa. She had this wonderful analogy about how you know when you read the catechism, you just, you know, have it out there. It's kind of like the two-dimensional view. It's like when you get on Google Maps and you kind of see the roads, you see the map, but then this program is kind of like the 3D view. This is like the street view. You kind of get in because there's so much to the catechism that it comes together.
Speaker 2:It's not just somebody who's writing it down, it comes from scripture, it's drawing on so many wonderful saints, it's drawing on the church, fathers, church councils, encyclicals, and it's kind of like weaving together this beautiful tapestry.
Speaker 2:But you don't often catch it unless you're actually really going through and looking up all those footnotes. And so we developed a program that's coming out where we filmed in so many countries all over France. We went to Turkey, we got to go to the sites where Nicaea, where the Blessed Virgin Mary lived, and with St John, we got to go to the Holy Land, up to Rome, spain, just all over, looking at the walking in the footsteps of St Therese of the Seals, st John of the Cross, really pulling together those sources that are behind the catechism. And so I'd like to just ask you, like in terms of your own again prayerful reading and the teaching on the Catechism, tell us about the background, the sources and why those are so important from just bringing together this beautiful work called the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Well, I think one thing that strikes me when it comes to the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
Speaker 3:Well, I think one thing that strikes me when it comes to the catechism is that it is a I don't think it's inaccurate to say again you can correct me on this it's a purely human work. In many ways, right, we don't believe it's divinely inspired as much as other than any more than this conversation could be divinely inspired Like, in that sense, God's grace is always present and as a purely human work, like Michelangelo's, David is a purely human work. It is beautiful, it is so profound. I would get done reading a paragraph and think who was it that was able to use such economy of words to describe this complex and profound truth of the faith in this particular way. It's just phenomenal Because they took, like you said, they're taking from scripture, they're taking from different church councils, they're taking from 2,000 years of history and they're consolidating this into these clear and concise paragraphs and sets of paragraphs and chapters and all these things, because it's not the work of one person and even the author who is writing it or editing it.
Speaker 3:This is the work of 2,000 plus years. And there's something I'm in awe of this, because I know how hard it is to even just sit down to say, okay, we're going to write a thing or give a talk on one topic, but to be comprehensive and realize you have to include all the church councils and all the things scripture says about this and not leave something out, not be misconstrued, and be completely, very clear it is. I can't imagine the daunting task that that was yeah it is a human writing and yet it is.
Speaker 2:It's not inspired by God in the way the sacred scriptures are God's words and the words of men, god breathing forth his divine word in the human language. It's not that, but we believe that the tradition of the church is animated, guided by the Holy Spirit, and you can totally see the Holy Spirit working through the saints that are a part of this, the councils, the church fathers, and pulling together the official teachings of the church. Let me ask you know, when it comes to the different sections of the catechism, is there a couple sections or even paragraphs where you find, wow, the way the catechism explains this point? I find this just so helpful. It just makes sense out of our faith so much. It helps me when you're preaching or for me when I'm teaching. It helps me to be able to explain why we believe what we believe. Could you share a couple moments like that in the catechism for me?
Speaker 3:Well, I had the one on battle of prayer. That's clearly there, the Our Father clearly there. One that was really personal to me was so I was confirmed in high school. I was confirmed the year before the catechism was promulgated, so I didn't have it.
Speaker 3:And I remember being in the catechism classes or religious ed classes, you know, getting ready for confirmation, and they would say, okay, I'm like what am I praying for? The gifts of the Holy Spirit? Like great, what are they? Here's the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit. And I'd be. They'd say, well, which one do you want? You know, do you want wisdom, understanding, counsel, knowledge, piety, fear of the Lord, fortitude? And I remember going like, ah, I kind of want all of them. Is that a thing when I say all, I choose all? But I didn't know which. I didn't know what to expect to happen to me. We heard that you know they'd explained. We read through Acts, chapter two, about the first Pentecost, the Holy Spirit coming upon the apostles and they speak different languages and all these things. They had courage in a new way. But I didn't know what would happen.
Speaker 3:And then, the year or two after I was confirmed, I look at the catechism and it was this really small section. There's one paragraph and it says the five effects of confirmation, meaning like here are the five things that happen when you get confirmed. And the first is we become more deeply rooted as sons and daughters of God. So, made sons and daughters of God in our baptism, confirmation roots us even more deeply. As God's sons and daughters, we're united more closely to Christ. So we're Christ's brothers and sisters. We're united even more closely to Christ. Third, the gifts of the Holy Spirit, those wisdom, understanding, counsel, piety, fear, etc. They're given to us in baptism. So if you're baptized you have those gifts. If you're confirmed you have those gifts. But it amplifies those gifts.
Speaker 3:The fourth effect of confirmation is it renders our bond with the church more perfect. And so that's why sometimes people will say that if you're confirmed now you're an adult in the church. It's fine, but what it means is there's no more sacraments of initiation, like you're as fully Catholic as the Pope is, you're in, not you're in, but you're in. And fourth, that renders the problem with the church. The fifth effect is the thing I think. Oh my gosh, the fifth effect of confirmation.
Speaker 3:The fifth thing confirmation does is it gives us a special strength of the Holy Spirit to spread and defend the faith in word and deed, to proclaim the name of Jesus Christ boldly and to never be ashamed of the cross.
Speaker 3:And as a senior in high school reading that, then a freshman in college reading that and like oh my gosh, that's what happened. I was given the special strength of the Holy Spirit to spread and defend the faith by what I said and by what I did, to proclaim the name of Jesus Christ boldly and to never be ashamed of the cross. I'm like that's what I want. That's what I wanted and to know that that's what I wanted to ask for, but I didn't know that's what I was given, but I didn't know, that's what I had, but I didn't know. It changed everything. I go back to that again and again and again, especially when talking to people about confirmation, especially when looking at my own life and saying God, what are the gifts you want for me? Especially when even just asking for those gifts of the Holy Spirit, that special strength of the Holy Spirit to spread and defend the faith by word and deed, to proclaim the name of Jesus Christ boldly and to never be ashamed of the cross, is everything.
Speaker 2:And that's one of the great things that even if we didn't learn it initially when we were confirmed or we were growing up, when you learn about the faith now, you can still draw upon and go wow, I can draw upon that grace to be more courageous and bold in sharing the faith because it's there. I just wasn't calling upon it. I love the sections when we go through the sacraments on the effects.
Speaker 2:There's always every sacrament that the catechism goes through has a section on the effects of the sacrament. I would just encourage you go there. That would be a great time to take to prayer and go back. You can think about your baptism for those. Anyone getting married, Any engaged folks here, Go read about the effects of the sacrament of marriage and what marriage really does. The holy sacrament of matrimony.
Speaker 3:Yeah, those words are powerful. They'll really. Those words will really hold space, I think, for a lot of people in their life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Confession, the one on confession. You know, we think we go to confession simply to get our sins forgiven, and that's huge right. But when you read the effects of what confession really does, it's really only half the story of God's mercy. I mean a huge half. It is really important that God is going to forgive me, but he wants to do so much more, and the catechism describes that when we go to confession, we actually are strengthened, we're receiving graces to help us overcome the faults, the weaknesses that we typically struggle with. So why do I want to go to confession regularly? Well, yes, because I sin all the time and I need to be forgiven. But I also want to go because I'm receiving grace to be strengthened to be a better husband, to be a better dad, to be a better friend, to be a better son of God, and I need that. You know one of my favorite. Can I jump to another?
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely, it's your podcast.
Speaker 2:The moral. On the moral pillar, there's one of my favorite quotes and it's very simple and I bet many of you have heard it before. But I can't tell you how this little line from the catechism, quoting St Thomas Aquinas, is just so helpful in just transforming people's vision for life. It's the definition of love. When it explains what love is, it quotes the great St Thomas Aquinas and explains that love isn't just a feeling, an emotion, a desire, romantic, no, no, love is a decision. Love is to will the good of the other. Can you all say that? What is love To will the good of the other?
Speaker 2:Because we live in such a culture that we think, you know, love is more about what someone does for me. You know I don't get those feelings, you know, from this person. Do I, you make me feel not alone? Or you know I get the sexual attraction Like it's all about what you do for me. But that's a very self-centered view of love and we're made actually to be more outward right, to be more like God himself, who gives of himself, to be thinking what's best for the other person. And do I have the inner character, the life of Christ in me, to love and live for others and not for myself.
Speaker 2:I just find that as one of my favorite little quotes, just one little gem, but can really just. I've seen marriages. Married couples have told me I've never thought of that as love. And they've been married, they're Catholic, they go to mass every Sunday but like, that vision of what real love is transforms them and realize we've been struggling so much in our marriage because it was like you're frustrating me right now or you're not doing what I want and you're not making me feel good right now, and it's like, well, hey, that's just what married life is and you got to get out of yourself. And it's actually when you learn to love like Jesus that the real joy and the blessings come.
Speaker 3:That's so funny. So love is to will to go to the other. I have a friend his name is Nick who has a lot of good teachings, insights named Nick Davidson. He's a missionary. My friend Nick is a missionary in Cambodia with his wife. She's a doctor and they have their five kids and they moved to Cambodia a couple of years ago just to bring the gospel there, and so his wife serves the people there in Cambodia for free and they just try to rely upon people supporting them so they can stay in Cambodia and bring the gospel to the people of Cambodia.
Speaker 3:But Nick says this he says love is a one-way street, that if Thomas Gwyneth's line is true about love is willing to go to the other. He says, therefore, love is a one-way street. And he says caveat relationships are a two-way street. But love is a one-way street. And he says caveat, relationships are a two-way street, but love is a one-way street in the sense that it doesn't matter what you do. I mean, obviously with health and with proper boundaries. This is important to understand, right, boundaries are good and being in places of danger is not always great. So if you need to remove yourself from that kind of situation, obviously doing this. But, all things being equal and healthy, my job is just to love, regardless of whether someone loves me back.
Speaker 3:Again, with that caveat being this is a healthy relationship because I can only control what I can control, and that sense of like. That's one of the reasons. Well, when we've talked before about marriage, that sense of the myth that marriage is 50-50. No, it's not. It is 100%. 100% that even if that person I covenant to myself with offers nothing back, I said everything and that is what I have to do. Because they're not doing what they said they would do doesn't mean I don't have to do what I have to do. Because they're not doing what they said they would do doesn't mean I don't have to do what I said I was going to do, and vice versa. And so just love is a one-way street. Relationships are two-way streets, but love is a one-way street.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I hope you're all getting a sense. The catechism is filled with so many gems that can just make such a difference in your life and we just want to get that full revelation, filling our mind with it and filling our souls with it on a regular basis. I want to turn to another section. This is from the first pillar, on the profession of faith and the creed, and I'm going to share a story with everybody here from the early days of Focus.
Speaker 2:I still remember it was maybe like the second or third summer training and we were sitting around it was Curtis, me and my good friend Tim Gray, sean Ennis from the Augustan Institute, and we were just kicking around some things about the catechism and the Bible. And this really relates to what you were talking about last night in your keynote about when we sin. That sin is, you know, not just I disagree with you, god, I don't trust you at the end and I love this line from the catechism it's article number 397 that says that first sin ultimately was a lack of trust in God's goodness, and all subsequent sin involves this lack of trust. Now we often hear that pride is the source of sin and that is, that's the tradition, but the Catechism says it's not just pride. There is this element of a lack of trust and I think you were kind of pointing us that way last night in your keynote.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that is. I mean, that's, I think, another part of the catechism. That same section actually says with that first sin, trust in God died in the human heart. The trust we have for God died in the human heart. And so the whole rest of the story is a lot of things, but one of the things that really is is God's winning our trust back. Not that he lost it, not that he didn't do anything to lose it, but we lost it. And so what does he do? I mean, you know, this is fascinating to me.
Speaker 3:I don't know if you guys realize this, but for all of Christianity, basically even before Christianity, the idea is here's humanity and we recognize something about ourselves. The image is of a courtroom, and this is an image that was used for hundreds and hundreds of years. The image of a courtroom because we find ourselves guilty. We find ourselves guilty and we're accused of what we're guilty of. And so God comes into the courtroom and he says what, what's God's answer to our guilt? God's answer to our guilt is the cross. God's answer to our guilt, in some mysterious way, is he takes all that we have and he takes it on himself. Something happened in the last 50 to 150 years, it's still a courtroom, but we're not the ones who are accused of being guilty.
Speaker 3:Like postmodern man, we look at God and what do we say? We say God, you're guilty, god, it's your fault. We look at the evil in the world and we say we don't say this was us, this is humanity choosing evil. We say God, you're the one who made this world, you're the one who lets us be in this broken place. God, you're the guilty one. What's your answer?
Speaker 3:And I think this is absolutely fascinating, because for thousands of years, we're guilty and God's answer is the cross. Now, with us. Right, our big thing is we don't trust God. So, god, you're guilty. What's his answer? The answer is the cross, that his answer for our guilt is. He's like I'll take your sin upon me.
Speaker 3:And his answer for us, accusing him of being guilty, is I'll take your distrust upon me and I'll do everything I possibly can to win your trust back. So you know that I'm not going to spare myself from what you've experienced. I'm not going to spare myself from your suffering. I'm not going to spare myself from evil. I'm not going to even spare myself from betrayal and heartbreak and death. I'll take that all upon me so that you can trust me. And I think this is incredible the genius of God who, when we're guilty, his answer is the cross, and when he's quote unquote accused of being guilty, his answer is the cross. Because he wants to win back our hearts to trust him, or else I'm going to keep running. I'm going to keep running Say leave me alone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so all sin in the end, it does involve this lack of trust. I think that, well, I know better. This is what's going to bring me happiness, this is the shortcut, and this is not just for the sin in the world, this is just. You know when we're sinning. This is what we do all the time, and I think there's just a great lens to see, yeah, the heart of what sin really is.
Speaker 3:Well, I would even say you know that all sin is an attempt to be happy apart from God. I heard that last night.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I heard that on a great talk. Yeah, well, we're about to wrap up here, but let me ask one last thing related to the catechism here. So again, I'm looking out seeing so many young people gathered here. They're growing in their faith, they want to love Jesus, they want to go back to their campuses and share Christ. So any last words of encouragement for them, as they're just getting started in their journey with the catechism.
Speaker 3:I think a lot of times, when it comes to being sent out or when it comes to being missionaries or disciples of Jesus, there are typically and I could be wrong about this, but there are typically three things that get in our way. Sometimes it's a lack of knowledge, sometimes it's that sense of like I got in the situation and these, you know, my friends brought up this like does the church really teach this or what would you say about this kind of situation, and I just don't know what to say. And sometimes that's reality. Sometimes the reality is I don't know what to say, and you could leave that conversation later on and you're like oh man, I totally nosedived, I froze, I didn't speak up because I had a lack of knowledge. Sometimes that's real, and that's why we go back to the catechism and say, okay, god teach me, we'll go back to scripture and God teach me, we can learn more. Sometimes that's our excuse, though, because sometimes it's not really a matter of I didn't have knowledge, sometimes it's one of two other things. Sometimes it's not I didn't have knowledge, it's I didn't have courage and that sense of as you go back to campuses, you go back to relationships and friendships and are called to be witnesses of Jesus. Sometimes it's like I don't have courage, and the courage doesn't mean like necessarily, like I'm not willing to do hard things or I'm not willing to face what I'm afraid of. Sometimes it's something as simple as I don't have the courage to enter a conversation that I don't know where it will end. I don't know if you have ever not evangelized or not shared your faith with someone, because you're like I don't know. If I bring it up, who knows, it's going to be out of my control. And I heard this yesterday. It was this you can have growth or you can have control. You can't have both. And so that sense of being able to enter into a conversation, I don't know where it's going to go. I can't control it. Well, maybe I just need courage. I don't have all the answers. Maybe I just need courage Because we're all going back to our friendships, we're all going back to relationships. We all know people in our lives who God has called us to love, who don't know who Jesus is yet. So, knowledge or a lack of courage, or the last one is sometimes I just have a lack of love, and what I mean by that is sometimes it's a lack of caring. I don't love someone enough to say the hard thing. Sometimes that's the reality, but sometimes it's more like this, and this is the image. I don't mean to take up your time, but I think the images um, I used this like a couple of years ago it cause so I really like sushi a lot.
Speaker 3:I mean, I know I'm unusual in that, because everyone loves sushi Um, and then I realized, oh, I really like Chinese food too, and they're like well, I really like Thai food as well. And then I realized this oh, I really just like soy sauce, like that's my favorite food. My favorite Chinese food is soy sauce, my favorite Japanese food is soy sauce. And so there is this grocery store near campus that has actually pretty good grocery store sushi. So I go there occasionally and I'll get the little packet of things and they have the free soy sauce packets and I'm like this is awesome. And then two years ago they got new soy sauce packets that were like even fuller, like you could.
Speaker 3:You know, sometimes soy sauce packets are like they're only a little bit of soy sauce in there. This had. This was like plump. It was pumped up with soy sauce. I'm like, yes, a lot of soy sauce. But if you've ever opened a packet like that, what happens? You lose it all because there's too much soy sauce. And I was.
Speaker 3:I remember opening a packet and like ah, and thinking like, oh, this will preach, because why? Because this thing was full of what I wanted, like it was full of good stuff. It was full of soy sauce. It was, it was and it was exactly what I wanted. It was packed full of soy sauce, but that was the problem. Packed full of soy sauce, but that was the problem. It was too full.
Speaker 3:And I think about our lives and think about okay, we're going to be sent back in a couple of days, back to our relations, back to our friendships, back to our campuses, with a message to give. And sometimes it's no, I didn't have enough knowledge, sometimes it's I didn't have enough courage and sometimes it's actually I didn't have enough love. Not because I didn't care, but because my life was just too full for anyone else. It's full of good stuff, but is there any room for time with someone who needed time? No, it's just too full. Is there any room for someone who actually let me enter that conversation with them? No, it's just too full. It's not like your lives are full of bad things. It's probably full of a lot of good stuff, but because maybe, maybe it's over full with so many good things that there's just no room for love.
Speaker 2:I love those three things and so I'm going to summarize them again. So maybe we need to know more, we need to understand our faith better. That's where the catechism comes in. I love what Frank Sheed said. Do you ever hear that quote? He Frank Sheed said Do you ever hear that quote?
Speaker 2:He says that every time you learn something new about their Catholic faith, it gives you another reason to love Jesus, and we all want to fall in love with Jesus more. So read the catechism so you can learn all that Jesus wants to give us. But maybe you need to pray for courage. That's the second point Father Mike said. But the last one and this is really the heart of focus is do we prioritize sharing the one thing that makes the greatest difference in our lives, the thing that matters the most? That's Jesus Christ and our friendship with Him. Do we prioritize or do we have so many other things that our packet is just too full of soy sauce? Do we really have that time and really prioritize loving Jesus so much that we want to love Him in our neighbor, in our family member, our roommate, our teammate, our classmate, that we're going to make it a priority to go back and witness the gospel to them. So well, father, it's been so great having you, and let's give it up for Father Mike.
Speaker 3:Thanks you guys. Thanks Dr Sreen.
Speaker 2:And, as he said, you can get started. It's not too late to get started on Catechism. In a Year you can go and find that podcast and start walking through the catechism as you're walking on campus and driving back to your campuses. And if you want to check out this show, this comes out every Tuesday, it's All Things Catholic. I give some advice here. If you were to pull out your iPhones and you're searching under podcasts there on your Apple podcast, don't put in my last name, sri S-R-I. Don't do that. It's dangerous. You'll get an Indian Hindu guru and you don't want the Indian Hindu guru guy. You put in Edward S-R-I. You can find it. Or simply, you could just simply text allthingscatholic one word to 33777. That's allthingscatholic, one word to 33777. Thanks so much for being here.
Speaker 1:Our prayers are for all of you as you continue your journey. Head to seekfocusorg backslash replay to download now, and don't forget to join us for Seek 26. Check out seekfocusorg for more information and to register.
