The SEEK Podcast
Welcome to the SEEK Podcast – we're so glad you’re here. This podcast is a place of community, collaboration, and inspiration, created to invite and encourage you deeper into a relationship with Jesus. Join these podcasters and many others as we encounter Jesus at SEEK25, Jan 1st-5th. For more information and to register, visit seek.focus.org.
The SEEK Podcast
Building a God-Centered Relationship: Ever Be x SEEK
Tune in for this episode from the SEEK podcast stage in Salt Lake City, where Mari and Trey Wagner dive into the profound benefits of weaving faith into daily life. They discuss key spiritual practices such as the Liturgy of the Hours and Lectio Divina that strengthen their bond, highlight the role of effective communication in dating, and provide useful tips for enhancing relationships through faith. Sharing their personal story from building a friendship to forming a marriage, they focus on the importance of discernment, chastity, and aligning with God’s plan for a rewarding, faith-driven relationship. Listen to learn practical ways to cultivate a deeply connected, spiritual relationship.
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Welcome to the Seek 25 podcast, featuring some of our favorite podcasters recorded live at the Max Studios podcast stage during Seek 25 in Salt Lake City.
Speaker 2:Hello everybody, how are we doing? Woo, amazing Welcome to the Everbee podcast. Hello everybody, how are we doing? Amazing Welcome to the Everbee podcast. We are so pumped to be here with you guys live. We record or mostly I record every week and it's just me up in my loft talking to my camera by myself. So it is so amazing to see every single one of your faces that I get to speak to every single week. This week we have my most favorite guest that I get to bring on the podcast, my husband Trey, hello everybody.
Speaker 2:So whenever I meet a fellow listener, I ask them like what has resonated with you most from the podcast? Because it's encouraging for me, I want to know what's hitting home and like nine times out of 10, people say I love your love story. I love when Trey comes on the podcast. Like people want to hear what good Catholic men have to say. Right, and so I thought we would bring him on today. It took a little bit of convincing, but he is here, so let's give Trey a warm welcome.
Speaker 3:Hey everybody, so happy to be here.
Speaker 2:Awesome. So today we're going to be doing a live Q&A. We're pumped, we're a little bit nervous because these are brand new questions and we're like, okay, come Holy Spirit. Hopefully we can give the best advice that we can, and hopefully it's the Lord's words, not ours. But we're going to be chatting about God-centered relationships, how to have a holy relationship, how to know, like, is he really the one? Is this what the Lord's calling me to do? So we're just going to get right into it and start it off with the very first question.
Speaker 3:Hold on before you start. Okay, go ahead. I am very thankful that we got to screen some of these or just read them first, because you asked some good questions and it gave me some time to think, so that was a good move on our end.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely Okay. Question number one what do your daily spiritual lives look like from morning to end? This is a great question. I'm excited to answer this because this is the foundation of what a God-centered relationship is really going to thrive from. So, Trey, do you want to talk about your spiritual life?
Speaker 3:Well, it depends. Is it a good day or a bad day? So I feel like on a good day I wake up and I try to do a morning offering and I go downstairs and make a cup of coffee and watch the sun rise out our window and pray what?
Speaker 2:do you pray with Very?
Speaker 3:simple Either the Liturgy of the Hours, morning prayer I love that a lot Lectio Divina with scripture, or I'll just journal. I have to journal to process. I'm a very slow processor and so journaling helps me a lot but then, yeah, it's just individual prayer, and then the day starts. I'll be honest, I fail to pray a lot more than I succeed at praying, though. So that's on a good day. If it's a bad day, then hopefully I'll be getting a rosary in on the car ride or we'll pray one together, but then that's my personal spiritual life. Do you do anything in the morning, mari?
Speaker 2:I think it looks pretty similar on our end. We both really try and prioritize our own personal relationships with the Lord first. So it's really important for us to cut out daily prayer time in our own lives and for us we've experienced that if we don't do it first thing in the morning, it's just likely not going to get done Because the day begins, your to-do list starts growing and it gets hard to get around to it.
Speaker 2:So we try to incorporate it into our morning routine. We wake up and we each kind of have our own space to pray. Much like Trey, I usually have guided prayer, either with scripture or journaling and devotional or sometimes just meditation, just like being with the Lord. I love praying with music and so lately one of my friends turned me on to this playlist called Soaking in the Presence of Jesus or something like that. I'll link it in the show notes of this episode when it goes up.
Speaker 2:But it's basically one hour of instrumental music and you put that on and your prayer is like all of a sudden, like the best prayer you've ever had, like it is so deep, it is so contemplative and wonderful and it just really helps me focus. So we try to do that in the morning. Likewise, we really believe in the power of the rosary, so we really try and pray a rosary every day, want you all to know we're not perfect Trey has made that clear and you know it's hard for us to do it every single day, but it's something that we really strive to do. And then what would be like? We end our days together and we pray together before we go to bed.
Speaker 3:Yeah, how we pray together at night super, super casual. Anybody in the audience can do this with your spouse. It's super easy. We just are laying in bed and we just pray from the heart, just like 30 seconds to a minute. Just thank God for the blessings of the day, ask for whatever petitions are on our hearts, pray for our friends and family, and that's it, and that's just like the day-to-day. There are times where we'll ask each other to pray for each other if we're feeling particularly stressed or anxious or we have something big going on in our life that we want prayers for.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So those are more like off the cuff, like when things are happening in our lives that need extra prayers, but that's kind of the daily ritual, I guess.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I really especially love the practice we have of praying together every night before we go to bed, because it just creates not just like a consistency but also just a natural comfortability to be vulnerable with your spouse. You'd be surprised, like we know a lot of married couples who've never prayed together and they're like, well, wouldn't that be awkward? Like, wouldn't it be awkward? Like saying out loud, like what you're struggling with, or talking to God? And, yeah, at first, sure, it could be like a little bit nerve wracking, but we know that that is the foundation of our relationship, us being rooted in the Lord, and no one is going to pray harder for you than your spouse. Maybe your mom she might. She might pray just as hard, but you want to be able to be open with your spouse, right, and let them in, because you are one with this person.
Speaker 2:And we had a mentor in college who really encouraged us to begin praying together since the time we were dating. And how you pray together is going to change depending on what part of the relationship you're at. So maybe at the time when we were dating, we would pray a decade of the rosary together every single day. So we would either FaceTime and do it. If we weren't together, or if we were together in person, we would do it together. Or if we didn't have time to call, we would text each other and be like, just prayed our decade, and so we would do that.
Speaker 2:And then, as the relationship got more serious, we opened up a little bit more, you know. And then it's like, hey, I'm really anxious about this, can you pray for me? And in the moment, you know, trey would place his hands on me in the car and just like begin to pray for whatever it was that I was struggling with. And this mentor in college he really stressed it because he said like prayer is like bearing your souls to each other and it is like more intimate than sex, really, like you're letting people into the deepest parts of your heart, and so if you can't do that with your spouse, right, there's a problem there. There's a lack of intimacy that you're missing out. On that you can really connect with your spouse. So that is one of my favorite things that we do prayer before bed. So highly encourage you guys to take that up.
Speaker 3:Okay, great, we need to answer these quicker. My bad, my bad. We have a lot of questions to get through.
Speaker 2:I know we have good ones right, this one's fun, this one's fun.
Speaker 3:What would you be the patron saint of? Do you want to answer for me?
Speaker 2:For you yeah.
Speaker 3:Put you on the spot.
Speaker 2:Uh, golf Okay.
Speaker 3:Is there a patron saint?
Speaker 2:of golf. No, like it's going to be you, I don't know.
Speaker 3:Well, I need to get a lot better then.
Speaker 2:Okay, what about me?
Speaker 3:Uh, you'd be social media for sure.
Speaker 2:Or chocolate.
Speaker 3:Or chocolate, chocolate. Okay, there you go All right next.
Speaker 2:Okay, I have a fun one. Do you think girls should make the first move or not? Asking out on dates, et cetera.
Speaker 3:I think ideally the man makes the first move. I think everybody wants that, yeah, like the girls want that, the guys want that. But it's not a perfect world and sometimes guys are dumb and they need some encouragement, and so I mean girls, in all things in life men are not mind readers, and so be very obvious with your hints if you want them to ask you out. So I mean, if he's not making the first move, you have permission to give him very, very obvious hints. But I think in the perfect world, yeah, the guy should be making the first move.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree. I agree that, like you want the guy to make the first move and like we want to empower men to be able to have that confidence you know, and that vulnerability to be like hey, like can I take you on a date, Like you're beautiful, or like I've loved hanging out with you, Like can I take you to coffee. I will say our experience was different, Um, I sort of feel like I made the first move.
Speaker 3:It's cause you can't wait. You fell, you fell too fast, I was still, I was, I was behind.
Speaker 2:Um, so I mean, if you want to hear the full story, it's like one of the very first episodes of the podcast. But basically we got connected through a mutual friend. We both wanted to start up Bible studies on campus and kind of create more of a Catholic community on our campus and so we got set up on like a coffee date to talk about that and we started hanging out more and planning these Bible studies. And all of a sudden this guy is like continually asking me out to coffee and to brunch to plan Bible study and we don't talk about Bible study. And like the hour and a half that we're there supposedly planning Bible study, but he'd never used the word date and I wasn't sure what was going on.
Speaker 2:And after there was one brunch he asked me out to and my friends were like he pays, then it's a date and then you should talk about what's going on. If he doesn't pay, then maybe it's not a date. And so we went to brunch and we were chatting. We had like the best conversation ever and I'm just hanging out like having a good time. The the waiter brings the check and it sits there and I'm like wow, he's not paying, like he must be having such a good time hanging out with me. Like he just wants the date to go longer.
Speaker 3:And I'm waiting for her to like say something about the check. I like let it sit on the table and clear sight for like 30 minutes waiting for her to like say like okay, like should we go, should we pay? And then I can be like oh yeah, do you want to split the check?
Speaker 2:Or waiting for her to kind of he was waiting for me to be like hey, I'll help you out with the check. Like we should split. I didn't want her to, I did not want to ask her to pay, and so I was waiting and he was a gentleman so he didn't.
Speaker 3:I was waiting for her to offer, and so I gave her a lot of time, and then she never offered, and I asked you to pay for the Uber, though, to like offset it, but then he asked me to pay for the Uber.
Speaker 2:So I was like stingy. But then we got back to campus and we were going to go study in the library because we had a religion class test coming up. And I like, if something is on my heart, you guys like I can't keep it in, like I can't hide my emotions, and so we're walking and in my head I'm like I just have to ask. So I just counted down, I said three, two, one, and then I just asked him I'm like I need to ask you something Was today a date or not?
Speaker 3:I'm confused and that caught me off guard.
Speaker 2:And that caught him off guard. He was like, uh, he's like I didn't plan it for it to be, but like I kind of want one in the future. Turns out he was really focusing on his relationship with the Lord, which was such a good thing, right, and I had been in that season right before like not dating, focusing on my relationship with the Lord. So I just told them listen, I'm not interested in dating any other guy on this campus. So when you're ready to date, somebody call me, because I'll be here. And I think that really surprised him. So in that case I would say, if the Lord's putting it on your heart, if you have a conviction that like this is a man God's putting in your life, don't be afraid. You know, like it's okay for girls to make the first move too.
Speaker 3:Yes, all right, moving on this one is related, so we can kind of continue telling about our story a bit. Okay, the question is how do you pursue friendship prior to a relationship?
Speaker 2:Go ahead.
Speaker 3:So Mari and I, I mean it was a quick friendship. We fell hard and fast for each other, but we were friends for I don't know like two months. So in the grand scheme of things that's not very long but it felt long when we were in it.
Speaker 2:We thought it was like such a long time.
Speaker 3:But yeah, I mean we just would hang out, Like we would just have really really good conversations and I mean we would try to, I guess, be prudent in like what we would share. But like I don't know, I don't think we did a very good job at that. We were just just loving hanging out with each other. We would go to we went to like a concert together with a group of friends and I'd hang out with her and her friends and their apartment and I think it was we started.
Speaker 2:When we started hanging out, like there was kind of a natural thing that started to happen, but truly like we were both in a place where we were like we don't feel like the Lord is calling us to date right now. We feel like he's calling us to really like pursue our faith. We were both going through a reversion in our own lives, um, but we were both interested in being with each other. So we said, like we're going to pray about it and we're going to wait for the Lord to let us know and give us the go. Like now you guys, like now it's my will for you to date. And so we had to set some boundaries, especially because we already, like were interested with each other, in each other, and I mean in college, like you're just like you're trying to find the person you're going to marry, you know, and it's hard to do that.
Speaker 2:But we had to set some boundaries. We were like hey, we're going to hang out with friends, you know we're not going to be intimate. Like no kissing or anything like that. Like not until we're dating. Like are we actually going to act like we're dating and we're actually just going to spend time talking, getting to know each other, and those are some of my favorite memories Like we spent hours talking about our families, like talking about Trey and like his love for baseball and you know the fact that he grew up with six siblings. I could not believe what that was like, you know. And so just getting to know, like our childhood, our families, and I think that was, yeah, that's what really helped us build our friendship.
Speaker 3:Okay, I think a lot of people are going to be going to a dating event tonight, right?
Speaker 2:Yes, I hope.
Speaker 3:So we have some questions about that.
Speaker 2:Yes, Okay. So first question here which is related to that.
Speaker 3:How do you bring up faith on a first date? You didn't proof this with me first. Okay, I have some thoughts. Okay, I have some thoughts. I don't think you have to bring up faith on the first date. I disagree. All right go, I want to hear your take.
Speaker 2:Okay, my thought is this If your faith is the most important thing in your life, if it is like the number one, non-negotiable, like it was for us, it should come up naturally in those first conversations. If it's not the most important thing in your life, like, you're not going to be naturally talking about it, but if it is, it can be a very casual thing and this is what I always like tell my friends when they're going on dates Like you just talk about going to church or Bible study or your faith, as if you're talking about like going to Qdoba or Chipotle. You know, like, don't make it a thing of like, oh, by the way, like I'm Catholic, you know, like you just like, oh, yeah, like, what did you do this weekend? Oh, yeah, like I went to mass. You know we're like, oh, I go to a Bible study on Tuesdays.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like, oh, I grew up Catholic and you know something like very casual and sometimes you might feel awkward, but I am like the biggest fan of like fake it till you make it. And the more you talk about your faith, the less awkward it's going to get. The less awkward it's going to be to talk about your faith and the more confident you are, the more the person that you're getting to know is going to understand. Like, oh, this is like a big deal in her life. Like, does that fit with my lifestyle or not, and you want to find out pretty soon? Like, if you're trying to find a Catholic woman or man to marry and this person's not Catholic, then don't waste your time.
Speaker 3:I mean, I think you convinced me, but the question was how do you bring it up? How do you bring it up?
Speaker 2:How do you bring it?
Speaker 3:up. So how do you?
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, just like in a casual way, I think. Like, talk about your weekend, talk about what you do. One thing this is also another question that was here Any advice for the speed dating event tonight what do you ask on a first date? We like to ask or we like to. When we're getting to know somebody like, and when people are dating like, we ask or we like to. When we're getting to know somebody like and when people are dating like, we ask what are you passionate about? Like, what do you love? What are your dreams, what are you passionate about? And I feel like faith should come up in that conversation. So that's a really easy answer. If you want to talk about it but it's not coming up, you could ask them like, hey, what are you passionate about, what do you love most? And they'll talk about whatever it is, and then, if they're a good dater, they'll probably ask you too, like, what about you? And then you could bring it up there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that's a great segue into like talking about faith is what are you passionate about? And then if he asks that question to you, then you can obviously say your Catholic faith and then you can hear about that for him. And if you start it by like opening that door of faith conversations, then it'll be more easy for the other party to also be like okay, great, let's talk about this.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But the other question that for that card was questions to ask at the speed dating event tonight. So what are you passionate about? But I also love like, what are your dreams? And skip the questions Like what do you do for work, Like you have five minutes with each other, so skip over all that. That's no fun. Um, so like ask questions. What are you passionate about? Uh, what are your dreams? Where do you see yourself in five, 10 years?
Speaker 2:Um how would? How would others describe you? I feel like I learned so much about you when we were dating because we were. You were doing a project for a leadership class, and the whole thing was like asking people that really knew you to describe who you were and what your character was like. And this was like three weeks into me meeting him and so I was helping him with that project, and the way that he was described by his family and friends really gave me an insight into who he was. So that could be a good question too yeah, yeah, or like a recent.
Speaker 3:I like to know what somebody's recently really into, and so I feel like sometimes we go through phases of like something you're really, really, really into, and so I like to ask that question Like what in the past like month have you been really into? Like what are you binging right now? So those are good questions for tonight.
Speaker 2:Okay, another question here what if they check every box except for Catholicism?
Speaker 3:This is a tough one Flirt to convert. That is good advice for tonight as well. It is good advice, but it's not the answer always. You definitely want faith to be, don't? It's not fully true is what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, and I think I think it's really going to come down to personal discernment. What my heart wants to say right now right, because it's it's what I found and what I have seen in my friends who have really prioritized finding a Catholic man is don't drop that as a standard. Like that should be the number one non-negotiable box. And if you're negotiating then it's not a non-negotiable, okay. Like it needs to be a non-negotiable, because it's really hard when you're dating to think about what the future is going to look like, what your marriage is going to look like. And then you get into marriage and it's beautiful and it's amazing, but like you go through really hard things and I can't imagine, I cannot imagine being married to someone who was not Catholic or did not have a strong faith life, or who couldn't lead me and our future children to heaven.
Speaker 2:Personally, I don't desire anything else but a Catholic marriage. So for me I would say, if they check every box except for Catholicism, really communicate that and be like it's really important for me to marry somebody who is a practicing Catholic. Are you open to it at all? Because the reality and what I want to say with this is that the Lord will have. Some of you marry someone who's not Catholic and that might just be a special mission that he has for you and it may be that that person's going to convert. That's always an option, so that's why there is some discernment with it. But I would say like the person needs to at least be open to it and be supportive of you, going to mass with you, maybe, praying with you and being open to learning more. But if they're like completely closed off, I would say it's not the right person for you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, you said it beautifully. I think the only thing I would add is two things. Only thing I would add is two things. One God has his own plan for each of your lives, and so it's between you and the Lord and the person you're dating, and it's different for everybody, so we can't give a blanket answer. But in the Catholic church, the sacrament of marriage is a sacrament, and if you are Catholic, you need to be getting married. In the Catholic church. It is a beautiful, beautiful sacrament and there's sacramental graces that come from that, and you also are obliged to raise your children in the Catholic faith, and so those are the conversations you need to have with the person you're dating. Uh, to to go down that road.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, okay, I have a fun question. Okay, what is one thing that annoys you guys about each other, and how do you get past it?
Speaker 3:Do you?
Speaker 2:want to go first.
Speaker 3:I feel like this is a trap.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:I'll go first, okay, go.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'll go first. I love you a lot and there's not a lot of things that annoy me about you.
Speaker 3:Good start.
Speaker 2:But one thing is you kind of mentioned it you process a little slower start. But one thing is you kind of mentioned it you process a little slower. And so I feel like my brain as a woman is like 5,000 steps ahead, and half the time when we're talking I'm just like I'm already there, you know, like catch up, catch up. And so, truly for me, I just need to practice patience. I just need to be more humble and practice patience, and I told them this the other day. I'm like we're in our 20s, man, it's only going to get worse. Like you're only going to get slower, man. Like I need to be patient now, you know, and so, truly, marriage is sanctification and it's not that bad. And if that's the top thing that annoys me about you, then I'm really lucky.
Speaker 3:All right, I'll start how you started. There's a lot of things I love about you and there's very little I don't like about you. But what annoys me the most is when you can't decide what to freaking eat or drink. Every morning, I would love to make her her drink and like bring her her drink or her breakfast in bed, or like cook it for her, or like serve her in that way, but every time I'll get it wrong, so so it's very hard.
Speaker 2:I'm very finicky about what I want to eat.
Speaker 3:It's like one morning it's coffee, one morning it's decaf coffee. One morning it's coffee, but it's iced. And then it's vanilla, and then it's honey, and then it's tea, and then it's oh, I want something, I want a smoothie. So one day it's I love avocado toast. The next day it's oh, I want something.
Speaker 2:I want a smoothie. So one day it's I love avocado toast. The next day it's like avocado toast makes me gag. It's disgusting. I would never have that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, or if we're just trying to like decide where to eat same thing, yes.
Speaker 2:Okay, I don't know if you've seen this reel I think it's a brilliant hack where the guy gets into the car and asks the girl like oh, we're going to go eat, like guess where I'm taking you? And then she's like she like says what she's most excited about, and he's just doing that to get her to decide. And he's like, yes, chick-fil-a you got it. That's great, okay so you maybe need to start doing that. I'll tuck that in the pocket, okay, do you have a question?
Speaker 3:All right God at the center of our relationship while in college and trying to grow in faith as a couple.
Speaker 2:Really good yeah.
Speaker 3:I'll hand it to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think, like I said in the beginning, what's going to help you have a God-centered relationship is putting the Lord first in your life. And I think when we were going through that one thing you mentioned, trey, was Sarah Swofford. She always says like run to heaven, like make that your goal. Like run to heaven, like make that your goal, like run to heaven and then turn to the side and see who's running with you. And so, first and foremost, focus on growing your own relationship with the Lord, focus on daily prayer and starting that habit from college.
Speaker 2:I know that it feels like life is so busy in college and I remember feeling that way too. But this mentor we had in college that taught us to pray and guided us through our relationship and everything, he would always tell us, like you are the least busy you will ever be right now. And I got so mad at him because I was like you don't understand. Like I'm in so many things, like I have a lot to do. You know I'm busy, but he's like no, you have no idea. Like you get into the real world, you become a wife, a husband, a mother and a father. Life just gets busy. So in college, like, cultivate these faith centered practices now so that you can take that into your adult life and your vocation, and that's what's going to help you. Um, yeah, really have faith at the center of your relationship, because it'll already be a practice for each of you in your own lives.
Speaker 3:I think another way to keep God at the center of your relationship is spiritual conversations. This is something that Curtis Martin has talked about a lot is making the faith just like a casual part of your conversations, as opposed to isolating your faith to just okay, as a couple, we go to mass, or as a couple like we do the rosary together once a week or whatever it is that you're doing, instead of it having to be like these isolated instances where you're practicing your faith together. Just talk about your faith. Talk about, hey, like what's God doing in your life right now? How was your prayer this morning? Like, what is something you're struggling with? How can I pray with you? Like, if you guys are in Bible studies you can talk about. Like what did you guys talk about Bible study? Or if you're doing some extra spiritual reading, like, hey, what's the meaning of learning the book you're?
Speaker 2:reading right now what stood out in the homily, or yeah?
Speaker 3:what's that? I just like like have conversations about it that are outside of the actual thing that you do for your faith. Um, then, it just is more integrated.
Speaker 2:And then to like choose something to grow in together. So when we were dating, um, part of it was because we had this, uh, gospels class that we were in together. But we read scripture a lot and so sometimes we would go through a portion of time where we were like, oh, we're going to read the book of John, and so, like every Tuesday, we would like get together and like read a chapter and then like pray with it, talk about it, or we read um a spiritual book on well, not spiritual book, on well, not spiritual book. It was like a relationships book, edward strees men women in the mystery of love.
Speaker 2:That was like the book that we read, and so it was good to read. It was short and sweet. Each of us got a book. We would each read one chapter a week.
Speaker 3:Then we'd come together and kind of like talk about what we felt like stood out to us, um, and that, like trace had kept spiritual conversations at like the forefront of our relationship or just this this past Advent, you were really great at encouraging us to do the Mike Schmitz Father Mike Schmitz face-to-face for Advent, and so we would just like watch those together and talk about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, how did you discern marriage?
Speaker 3:I feel like this falls on me because I had to discern when to propose first, or if I was going to propose. The if part was pretty easy. I knew pretty early on to the relationship that I was going to marry Mari, and so then the question was just when and timing, and I mean it's different for everybody. I took it to prayer to a spiritual director and to a really close mentor of mine and talked it out with them. The spiritual director said do it yesterday. My parents said wait six years. No, they didn't. It's just prayer, it's discernment.
Speaker 3:Discernment is a skill that you can learn how to do, like the more you do it, the more you discern things in your life. You start to recognize the patterns and the ways that God speaks to you and like just the silent movements that the spirit works in your heart. And so at that point I mean I was still pretty fresh into my conversion, so I was like this was obviously a huge decision and it took a long time to discern it. But ever since then I feel like I've been able to like recognize the patterns from that discernment process into how to discern other things in my life. But to answer the question about, like how to decide and discern marriage.
Speaker 3:I think it was just like I felt God, I was like I know she's the one that I'm going to marry. There's no reason to wait at this point. So I was a junior in college, which is very young. I look back at that and that's crazy, but I proposed junior year of college. We got married right when we graduated and I think it's just. It's about timing, like when you feel in your heart like you're ready, uh, when God's calling you to get married, when you guys are ready to have kids and like really take that next step.
Speaker 2:Um, those are all elements to play a part, I think, a key thing you talk you mentioned is that you talk to several mentors who are really rooted in the faith, like Christ-centered people. So, depending on who your friends are or your family, like, if they're not practicing or if they're not, like, rooted in the faith and that's the type of marriage you want to have, they might not be the people that you want to get this advice from Like. So I think, finding a spiritual director, like maybe your chaplain you know if there's a priest at your Newman Center or something that you can talk to or even a missionary that can kind of help guide you through that, somebody who is really rooted in Christ and that understands the power and the weight of vocation, because the world right now will tell you like don't get married, you know, and don't get married young, like don't be chained down by somebody. But I'll tell you like I think for us we were young in college but we just felt like if God's calling us to our vocation, why would we put that off? Like our vocation is what's going to take us to heaven, and if we know, if we're getting confirmation now, like yes, you're supposed to be married and this is the person you're supposed to marry, why would we put that off. So I think for me, a moment when I was going through a discernment.
Speaker 2:I was an intern with Focus a few years in a row for different summers and one of the summers I was out in the University of Mary doing internship stuff there while the focus missionaries were training and there was so many priests and religious around and during different times of prayer I felt the Lord, like speak to me to surrender my vocation. And I was freaking out because I was super in love with him and I'm like if the Lord's asking me to surrender my vocation, it means he's asking me to be a nun and like I am so not about to do that. And we had this prayer experience at Adoration and this missionary came up to me and she was like I'm sorry, do you have arthritis? And I was like no, she's like I just keep getting a vision of like your hand, like your left hand, is it hurting? And I was like no, that must be someone else. Like that's not me. And she's like I'm so sorry. Okay, I'm going to keep praying about it. She came back again like half an hour later. She's like it's you. Like your left ring finger is strained. Are you praying about vocation at all. And I was like, yeah, that's me. And she was like I think the Lord just wants me to tell you to surrender your vocation. Like he's going to take care of you.
Speaker 2:That night I bawled my eyes out and I went to a priest that I had been doing spiritual direction with over the summer and I told them this and he was like God may very well be calling you to get married. And I was like no, like I mean I would love that, but like I didn't know that I could have that, like I'm like 21. Like there's no way God's calling me to do that. And, you know, I was like my parents are going to kill me, like they're not going to want me to get married right now. And through several sessions of spiritual direction after that summer, like we kept in touch. We would. I think it was like Skype at the time I'm not that old, I don't know what it was, just say FaceTime.
Speaker 3:But it wasn't.
Speaker 2:Zoom. We, like, did some video calls with this priest throughout the summer and into the fall and we continued to pray with what I felt like the Lord was putting on my heart and this feeling of engagement. And I told myself I'm not going to bring it up to Trey because I don't want to influence his decision. And when we ended up talking about, it turns out that same summer we were both having those prayerful experiences in our own prayer and both talking to spiritual directors, feeling like the Lord was calling us to get engaged. So, all in all, your discernment is really going to come down to prayer, and finding a good mentor that's gonna help you discern God's voice.
Speaker 3:And beyond marriage. If you're discerning anything, if you feel like you know what God's calling you to do, be generous with your yes. Just do it now, like don't wait, don't delay, like if you know God's calling you to do something, just do it now, like it's going to be for your own good. It's going to give you the most joy, it's going to get you to heaven, so don't keep putting off that decision.
Speaker 2:He'll provide If he's calling you to it, he'll provide. I think for us one of the things we were most nervous about, like we were broke college students, we're like we don't have money. How are you supposed to do this? And Trey's spiritual director would always say, like, who said you need money to like enter into a sacrament? You know? Like God will provide. And he did.
Speaker 3:And he did, became missionaries and we were fine. We had nothing to freak out about. But the Lord will always provide whatever he's calling you to do. All right, this is. This is fun. What is a part of marriage that?
Speaker 2:is bringing you lots of joy. Right now we have 10 minutes. Okay, we're just like seriously best friends, like we do everything together and I think that we have a unique relationship to where we like actually get a lot of time to spend together because obviously we live together but we also work together. We have a business that we own and we work full time from home. We have the same friends and the same family, so we spend a lot of time together. But it is just so much fun to just have this best friend, this companion, who you get to make so many memories with and chase after your dreams. Yeah, it's just friendship.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you took my answer, but yes, I'll just echo that. But then also, just, you're hilarious, my, what You're hilarious, oh what You're so funny and goofy and so I think I don't know, that's just something that came to mind recently. We were so funny and goofy and so I think, I don't know, that's just something that came to mind recently. I just feel like you're she might put on this front, in front of the screen, that she's all stoic but she's so fun.
Speaker 2:Trey says I made him weird.
Speaker 3:Yes, I was normal. And then I met Mari. I was like I don't think I'm that weird, and then her weirdness rubbed off on me.
Speaker 2:I'm not weird guys. Um, how do you practice chastity while dating? This is a good one that definitely needs to be talked about. Um, do you have anything to say, right?
Speaker 3:off the bat. I mean you've spoken on this a lot and you have like your points. I'm going to let you start, and then I'll fill in the blanks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's really going to be about setting really good boundaries for your relationship and setting those early on so you both have an understanding of like what you're pursuing together as a goal. So you both need to be on the same page of what you're trying to do, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think what you said there is early, like it needs to be early on.
Speaker 2:Yes and both be on the same page. If one person is like not on board, that's going to be really hard. It's going to be really hard because you're going to struggle and there's going to be times of temptation, and if you're not both fighting for the same thing, it's going to be really hard. So I remember like when we were dating, we like set some boundaries and it honestly felt stupid, cause I'm like I'm an adult, like I don't need these things, like I totally trust myself but don't trust yourself. So some of the things we set were like curfew. We set a curfew for ourselves, which again I was like I'm in college, I don't need a curfew, but it actually really helped.
Speaker 2:So we would say like we don't hang out, like past, like I think it was 10 pm 10 or 11 yeah, um, and then if it was like we had to be in a group of people, like we had to be like in the living room with our friends or like out doing something, but like we had no business hanging out with each other alone after like 10 pm or 10.30. We couldn't be in each other's rooms by ourselves and the door always had to be open or people had to be home. Another thing I've heard a lot of people say is helpful is like four feet on the ground, so like.
Speaker 3:Just don't be horizontal, don't be horizontal.
Speaker 2:Four feet on the ground and then just get back up and try again, like go to confession often.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. Confession is your best friend. I think the only thing I have to add to that is be explicit with your boundaries, don't be vague and do it early on, and then have mercy on yourself and get back up and God still loves you. And it's not the end of the world, it's just go to confession.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one thing too that I feel like was really helpful for me, that I always held on to to wait for marriage, was I think I heard it in a Jason Everett talk when I was in like high school or something, and he said those vows that you make on the altar as a Catholic, you say for all the days of my life, right, you say like I will.
Speaker 2:You know, you make all these vows for all the days of my life. And the way I looked at it was every single day of your life is a day of your life. You're not saying like I'm vowing myself to you from this day forward, but you're truly saying like for all the days of my life, like I am completely yours. And so I would use that as encouragement for me of like I want to, you know, be up on the altar with my husband and have that be truly what it means and just be like every single day of my life I waited for you and I like gave myself completely to you. So if that encourages you, take that with you.
Speaker 3:The other thing is the book we recommended earlier, men and Women in the Mystery of Love. It's basically the dumbed down, easy to read version of JP Tooth's Theology of the Body and Love and Responsibility, and so that gives you a lot of like reasons why it's really good to be chaste and to love chastely, and so the other book that really helped me was how to Find your Soulmate Without Losing your Soul, by Jason Everett.
Speaker 2:Like game changer of a book. You guys, I'm out of questions, you're out of questions. You have one more.
Speaker 3:How do you know if God sent a partner into your life versus you forcing someone into your life?
Speaker 2:Yeah, First thing that comes to mind is peace. When the Lord is leading you to something, there's going to be peace. It doesn't mean it's always going to be easy, but there is just an innate like stillness in your heart and confidence in what's going on and that it is of the Lord.
Speaker 3:And if you feel like there's a lot of tension, Like if it truly feels forced right Um, that there's no peace there, yeah, and what you said earlier, uh, the Sarah Swofford quote about don't worry so much about like, don't be so fixated on the other, just like be fixated, be fixated on God, and just like run to God. And then what Sarah says, like just strive after God and see and run after God, and just like run to God. And then what Sarah says, like just strive after God and see and run after God and turn to your left or right and see who's running with you. I think that's a great line. And yeah, I mean, like I said, discernment is a skill.
Speaker 3:If you keep doing it you'll get a lot better at it. And then you can like discern things quickly and so recognize that's why I love journaling is I can like recognize. When I journal and process externally like that through journaling and prayer, then I'm more easily and quicker at recognizing patterns in my life, like when I'm feeling this or when I'm feeling this. Then I can like feel the Holy Spirit kind of nudge me in one way or the other, but I mean, yeah, there's no answer, that's like black and white. For that you just got to pray.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's kind of a cop out answer, but it's the best answer.
Speaker 2:I think too, like as Catholic women especially like, we get caught up a lot in like the question of is he the one? And I remember going to like Steubenville conferences, you know, and I was boy crazy since I was like 15. And I was just like, oh my gosh, is this the boy I'm going to marry? Is this the boy I'm going to marry? Is this the boy I'm going to marry? I know Jackie said that in her talk the other day and I heard all you girls just like laughing like ha ha ha, Like no, we all know you're all thinking it and I think sometimes like we need to let go of that a little bit, you know, and pray for him to be prepared spiritually, emotionally, physically.
Speaker 2:However, it is that you know you want to pray for him and bless him and then ask less of the question of like is he it? Is he it? Is he it? And I know that it's different for every person, but a lot of people you talk to it's like you'll know, like truly and especially, if you are aligned with the Lord and in his grace and praying and discerning daily, like you'll know who it is, you'll feel that in your heart, you'll feel that confidence of God and that peace of the Holy Spirit in your heart that, like this, is the open door God's leading you to. So it's less about like trying to figure out which guy in your life is the one and instead, like Trey said, like really pursue the Lord, look to the side and if there happens to be somebody that's there, that's like a really good man, like that might be a really good option.
Speaker 3:Yeah, then this last question is really really similar. It's basically just asking how to surrender your love life to the Lord, and I mean that goes with anything in life, not just your relationship or your love life. I mean that goes with anything in life, not just your relationship or your love life. But how do you surrender anything that you're desiring to the Lord? And you said this with your vocation.
Speaker 3:Discernment is, just because you surrender something to the Lord doesn't mean he's taking it from you. He could very well just give it right back to you, but he wants to give it to you and if you're not surrendering it to you, if you're not surrendering it to God, then he can't actually give it to you, because you're just trying to take it or just like create it for yourself and so, uh, like trust that God is good and ultimately, like he desires the best for you and he's a good father, and so by surrendering it to him you could get that right back and it would be better and blessed and a gift from God. Uh, so don't be afraid to surrender things. I mean it's so freaking hard, but, um, just just daily prayer.
Speaker 2:And yeah, another thing, um too, is like surrender multiple or not surrender, uh, discern multiple vocations. So like don't completely close the Lord, close the door on religious life if the Lord hasn't closed it for you. Trey went to like a seminarian come and see type of thing, right, like something like that, where you were just like and we were actually still dating and I was terrified but he was like I mean, I haven't thought about it super seriously, but I haven't completely closed the door and I just feel like the Lord's calling me to like go to this retreat and like surrender my vocation and and I think that's a really powerful thing yeah, I went and I was like I'm getting married, so and the Lord?
Speaker 2:made it clear like the Lord closed that door. And I think, similarly to me, in that moment of prayer when I surrendered my vocation and I was like, oh my gosh, god's going to ask me to be a nun which, if he's asking you to be a sister, like truly, that will be what brings you the most joy in your life. Your vocation will bring you the most joy in your life and if you're meant to be a sister, you're going to be more joyful in that vocation than in marriage. But I was scared in that moment, but I surrendered it and then I feel like the Lord quickly gave it right back to me and I think a lot of the times, at least when I was in college, I felt like because of my testimony and the way that I was living in the world before I met the Lord, right, I felt like a lot of the ways that I was living in, a lot of the things I desired the Lord didn't want and it was like he immediately opposed for me, right, and so it was a natural thing for me to feel like, oh, like I really want this vocation.
Speaker 2:God probably doesn't want that for me, right? Because he didn't want drunkenness for me, he didn't want impurity for me and so that initial desire of like I really want this, he might take it away. That's a natural thing we might feel, but that's not true. Like the Lord places desires on your heart, and especially with vocation, like those are really good desires and in the end he's going to lead you If you are open, if you are discerning, if you're in grace with the Lord. Like he's not going to trick you, he's not going to lead you astray, he's going to lead you exactly to what's going to get you to heaven.
Speaker 3:Great, it's out of time. Where can they find more of you?
Speaker 2:Oh yes, so Ever Be podcast is on Spotify, apple, I think. I don't know if people listen to podcasts on other things, but it's probably on that as well. We're also on Instagram at ever be podcast, and then my personal blog you can find it at at maricwagner. And then our Catholic lifestyle brand is West Coast Catholic. You can find it at westcoastcatholicco, and our Instagram is at westcoastcatholic Hope you wrote that down.
Speaker 3:That's a mouthful, but thanks so much guys.
Speaker 2:Thank you guys.
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